AR XA skipping at start of records after new cartridge

[Stanley7520]

Hello! Just to get this outta the way, this is a first post, apologies if its not in the right place.

I've been using an older friends AR XA for a while now, as an upgrade to a pioneer pl7 I found used at a thrift store. Following the instructions, I got it more or less dialled in..it sounded pretty good to me.

After a few months of use, I finally decided to grab a new cartridge for it, and settled on the AT95e, figured that I couldn't go wrong at the price. installation went well, but I'm noticing that the stylus about 90% of the time will shoot over the first few grooves of a record and start tracking a bit after the first song. the other 10%, it seems to start normally. Apart from this, I have noticed no other issues with tracking throughout the rest of the record. I place the needle down gently, and don't seem to recall having this problem with the previous cartridge, an old goldring elan that I had on the pioneer.

I did try adding a bit of tracking force, as well as taking some away, both not seeming to do much to help. Tracking force is set at 2 grams.

Any tips? This problem seems to persist on newer records as well as old ones. I have tried starting the turntable with the stylus already on the record, which has worked once (proper start) but also not worked (shortly after starting the stylus shot onto the first track)

Thanks for reading!

 

[kmp14]

It might be that you are dropping the needle a little too close to the edge of the record (and too far from the start of the first track) and it is sliding down that hill that makes up the lip edge of the record.

 

[dosmalo]

The cart wires in the back of the tone arm could possibly be the problem as they are twisted in such a way that they serve as 'anti-skate' for the arm one way or the other.
Check that perhaps they are not hanging up somewhere also.

 

[Stanley7520]

@kmp I've noticed that if I do drop the needle where its almost at the first groove, it doesnt seem to skip as far, but skipping occurs nonetheless. thank you for the suggestion though!
@dosmalo this may be it! I did notice one of the wires peeking out from under the headshell and poking it back in seemed to make a tiny difference but I wasn't sure if such a seemingly little thing could be responsible for the problem at hand. I will report back later once Ive tried re arranging them.

 

[marcmorin]

@kmp I've noticed that if I do drop the needle where its almost at the first groove, it doesnt seem to skip as far, but skipping occurs nonetheless. thank you for the suggestion though!
@dosmalo this may be it! I did notice one of the wires peeking out from under the headshell and poking it back in seemed to make a tiny difference but I wasn't sure if such a seemingly little thing could be responsible for the problem at hand. I will report back later once Ive tried re arranging them.

He's talking about these wires, yours should still be the original screen type. That little bit of loop can be manipulated to create an antiskate force.
Set tracking weight to just where the stylus wants to set down. put a smooth piece of plastic on the platter, set the cart down about runout groove distance. The arm should want to swing outward. if not, give the loom a little twist, recheck.
Also make sure the oil for the arm will comes to the top of the little pocket.

 

[Stanley7520]

@marcmorin hello! As a lurker I've heard some great things about your mods. Thanks for posting.

I've just tried what you suggested with the loop, and unless I haven't done it right (I didn't do it quite the way you suggested) I'm not sure if its the solution I'm looking for.

What I've done is, since I was unable to find some plastic, twisted the loop to a degree, and tested it on a record, with normal tracking weight. It seems to have created some sort of anti skate, where half the time, once placed at the start of the record, it will move outwards a bit, before shooting back onto the first track. The other half of the time, it seems to do the job and let the record start normally.

Nonetheless, it seems like I have to put the stylus down quite a bit more gentler than I used to have to. Is this something I just have to live with?

I heard AR put out a white paper on how anti skate was unnecessary back in the day. I guess it is? Depending on your cartridge?

By the top of the little pocket, you mean where the arm comes out of the "body"? (for lack of a better word/proper terminology)

 

[Stanley7520]

Hey you guys, after doing a bit of research on the internet, do you think the problem would lie with the apparent fact that the at95e is a "medium" compliance cartridge? It seems like the AR tonearm favors "low" compliance ones, (ehm..whatever that means) which help it track well without an antiskate.

I know nothing so if what I'm saying doesnt make any sense then thats why.

Cheers!

 

[Grenadeslio]

Hey you guys, after doing a bit of research on the internet, do you think the problem would lie with the apparent fact that the at95e is a "medium" compliance cartridge? It seems like the AR tonearm favors "low" compliance ones, (ehm..whatever that means) which help it track well without an antiskate.

I know nothing so if what I'm saying doesnt make any sense then thats why.

Cheers!

Mine was very happy with Grados and they're higher compliance, but I think the AT should be fine.

Any pics of your installation/cartridge and headshell?

 

[Stanley7520]

For sure! Pics should be included with this post.

I've just been listening to a few records and @marcmorin's loop twisting suggestion seems to have helped quite a bit actually.

 

[Grenadeslio]

For sure! Pics should be included with this post.

I've just been listening to a few records and @marcmorin's loop twisting suggestion seems to have helped quite a bit actually.

Any with it sitting on the record, playing or otherwise?

Glad to hear adjusting the tonearm wires worked.

Still.............want..............pictures

 

[gkimeng]

The AR tonearm wad designed for medium to medium-high pickups of the 1960s, which compared to most of today' pickups is pretty high I'e been using mine with ADC XLMs at 25 and 30 x 10*6 for years with no issues.

Has the arm damping been disabled? If not, your problem may be caused by congealed damping not releasing the arm properly.

 

[Stanley7520]

No prob at all, if you need more, I am willing to send em. Thanks for the help by the way.

Apologies if they aren't very good, I can't see them very well on my phone.

Not sure if you can see it, but do you notice that the headshell seems to be a little tilted?

@gkimeng, the turntable came with an adc "0402", which I've been unable to find any info about on the web. If I could find another stylus for it it might be worth checking out?

The arm damping is something I've wondered about. I've fiddled the two screws on the side of the "main block" part of the tone arm, to get it to move a little more freely, which was nice, but at the moment they're cinched up fairly tight. I've never felt like I was able to get the damping to work properly.

Cheers!

 

[Grenadeslio]

No prob at all, if you need more, I am willing to send em. Thanks for the help by the way.

Apologies if they aren't very good, I can't see them very well on my phone.

Not sure if you can see it, but do you notice that the headshell seems to be a little tilted?

@gkimeng, the turntable came with an adc "0402", which I've been unable to find any info about on the web. If I could find another stylus for it it might be worth checking out?

The arm damping is something I've wondered about. I've fiddled the two screws on the side of the "main block" part of the tone arm, to get it to move a little more freely, which was nice, but at the moment they're cinched up fairly tight. I've never felt like I was able to get the damping to work properly.

Cheers!

Azimuth is Definately off, as is the VTA pretty drastically from the looks. Any pics of the arm from the side showing the whole arm as it's playing?

 

[Stanley7520]

Wow, did not know it was called azimuth. What a name.

Any pointers on adjusting? Pics included.

Thanks!

 

[Thunderbox]

That whole photo is distorted from actual. I would not make any adjustments based on that picture. It is so distorted it looks like the record itself drops about 2 cm from the center to the outside. I am sure that is not the case.

 

[gkimeng]

The two side screws should NOT be tight; they are the vertical pivots and should be screwed in just enough so the arm doesn't move side-to-side.

The damping cylinder is an ancient form of slow arm descent, and by now is almost certain to be seized. It's coupled to the arm by a pin that should be removed. Don't bother to try to make it work; it never will.

 

[Calypte]

Sorry for the late reply, but be sure that the leads to the cartridge aren't hanging so low that they touch the record.

 

[sqlsavior]

If you must resort to cueing the arm down while the platter is stationary, then after the arm is down, move the platter by hand about 1/2 inch in its usual direction, to seat the stylus in the groove, before turning the motor on. About 90% of the time you can hear it seat itself, if the volume is up. The other 10% is when it lands in the groove on its own.

 

[Stanley7520]

@Thunderbox I'm not sure what you mean, to me it seems like the photos are visually accurate. Should the photo be taken level with the record? I have to look into VTA adjustment and azimuth on my own, maybe it'll make more sense then.

@gkimeng I'll see if I can find out how to get rid of it then -I had heard many don't use it as it's supposed to sound better without as well. As for the screws I'll see if I can give em a loosen.

@Calypte No prob at all, and they most certainly aren't haha.

@sqlsavior thanks for the tip! I do like the aesthetic appeal of dropping the needle while the platter is moving but if it won't work properly I'll try what you suggested.

Thanks for the replies guys!

 

[SSaxdude]

Any way you could use a thinner mat? That would have the same effect as raising the tonearm.