Are there any advantages to less advanced styli?

[mrwood200]

Both phono preamps will probably work fine. You may well prefer one over the other, so be sure to try both!

Agreed. Both can work & OP can try them both. Will not hurt anything.
The 4dB difference between the preamps may appear small, but should be noticeable. 30-40% louder.
And both a bit low for 1.6mV cart. Google AI overlords want ~50dB if you want a .5mV signal.
+40dB will get you .16mV. It should work, but you will have to turn up the volume knob, which may reveal some system noise.

Nothing wrong with giving it a try! We can always upgrade the phono preamp later if needed!

The DL-110 output is spec'ed conservatively at 1.6mv output and I have read that it is actually more like 2.4mv. I have had two of them in operation and they both drive a MM 40 dB gain phono stage easily. 47K is a fine load for it. Connecting it to 60 dB phono stage will make it louder much sooner on the dial but it could also make the background noise more prevalent.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

"The DL-110 output is spec'ed conservatively at 1.6mv output and I have read that it is actually more like 2.4mv."

I totally agree with @bobins08 here. I use 2.5mV for all my DENON DL-110 calcs.

Even our LEBEN RS-30EQ MM Phono Stage - measured by Stereophile to provide ~38dB of Gain - is ample for the baby DENON.

No lack of dynamics!

 

[narud]

There is no "audio technica 40xcb" stylus, there is the VMN-10XCB stylus. Which has a simple non-tapered aluminium cantilever. So I understand you meant the 10XCB stylus.

The VMN-45XML has a boron cantilever. The frequency response differences, and many other differences, will be dominated by the massively different cantilever.

On the frequency response graph, you're not really comparing stylus tip shapes, you're comparing cantilevers here.

im glad you could figure it out. good catch. i never said the graph was comparing tip shapes. im comparing the two starting points of the system at the outer track of an lp. the roll off at the end of the side is the tip. i could run this again with the aluminum cantilever 40ml stylus i also have and the difference in performance at the end of the side will remain.

 

[lini]

"The DL-110 output is spec'ed conservatively at 1.6mv output and I have read that it is actually more like 2.4mv."

I totally agree with @bobins08 here. I use 2.5mV for all my DENON DL110 calcs.

Actually, that's not a conservative/understated specification, but rather a "Japan style" specification. I.e., quite a few Japanese manufacturers, also including Denon, specify the cartridge output voltage at a peak modulation velocity of 5 cm/s in lateral/mono rather than 45°/stereo modulation - which in case of a stereo cartridge, which is primarily made for detecting the motion in the 45° planes, is equivalent to 5 cm/s * ( 1 / 2^0.5 ) = ca. 3.536 cm/s in 45°/stereo modulation.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Gigantic]

I bookmarked an eBay seller who has them for $200. Wasn't hard to find. I haven't made any decisions yet, just soaking it all in. But the DL-110 seems like a pretty risk-free way to try out moving coil.

I did the same last year. I haven't really touched my 2m Blue since then.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

More than... ?



It is the other way around.

Line contact stylus have more contact area than ellipticals and most conicals.

And thus, the line contact profiles have longer life.

If they get replaced on time, and set up and aligned correctly.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Any of the P-Mount stuff will track at 1.25g and sometimes can still be found out in the wild. Either that or I just got lucky!

If the styli are genuine. Otherwise, all bets are off if generic. Jico's closest to genuine.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

It seems today, that many of the fine elliptical styli are spec'd at higher tracking forces than 1.25 grams.

It's also because tonearms changed in popular use, from lower mass, to medium mass. Cartridges changed to be suitable for medium mass tonearm use.

 

[curtisw99]

I appreciate it.

Rather than a discussion about IGD I’m wondering what advantages conicals and ellipticals bring to the table. With correct setup, what can they do that advanced styli can’t or don’t?

And with entry level MC’s and MI’s having conicals and bonded ellipticals, can they be considered an upgrade over something like a cheaper MM with an microridge or Shibata?

Edit: an easy example that comes to mind is that people still enjoy the Denon DL-103. It has a conical stylus, which on paper seems like a limitation, but if it actually was a limitation, then that cartridge would have been in the bin and forgotten a long time ago. So clearly it’s not.

I’m a big fan of the AT 0.6 conicals

 

[perryinva]

It seems that much of this discussion is whether you support the science of the design, or simply follow what your ears prefer. Neither is incorrect for the specific individual. In addition, no one listens in the exact same system which will certainly add its own signature. So to contribute to the OPs question: if the result is a sound you prefer (vs what is arguably more accurate) then, yes, there is a place for conicals and ellipticals.

I fall in to the science of design that produces what I like the sound of, category. I’ve never used a conical in 60 years, so I didn’t contribute to the discussion. While I use pivoted arms often, I prefer the sound of my linear trackers with microline/ridge, and therefore IGD is not a factor. Besides a few original elliptical tips, most all my others are Hyper-elliptical, microridge or microlines. My sole Shibata is a 12a in a 721 that I
installed the lowest capacitance non exotic leads on. It sounds ok.

Alignment is critical on an LT. You MUST be at the right angle tangent of the groove for the magic to happen. Also, nowhere in this thread did I see any mention of WHERE the tip tracks in the groove, just that some tips track longer sections, which is particularly relevant on used records. If a longer contact area rides an undamaged or cleaner section only, it is more accurate and better sounding. If it encounters a damaged and or dirty area combined with the cleaner undamaged area, it probably presents the damaged over the clean but will still in all likelihood sound better than a tip
that only rides the damaged section.

Many times, for me, simply switching to a different tip/cart/table will present a much quieter and it more natural result as that combination rides in a quieter part of the groove of that LP.

Mistracking to me, is the most bothersome distortion, followed by unnatural FR presentation, so the arm/cart/suspension combo is key in that venue. I’ve never used a contemporary AT, so I have no comment on them, but I love the sound of my DL-110 on my Yamaha YP-D8 through my C33. Quiet, realistic, no mistracking, with no IGD on anything I’ve played in the last few years that I could detect. Otherwise most other tables are Shure equipped with a vintage MA thrown in at times for fun.