Are Tone Controls and the Cutting Edge Incompatible?

[Bigerik]

As I sit and mull over things audio related, this is one that I just can't seem to get my head wrapped around. I get the whole idea of short signal paths, and putting as little as possible into the signal path. From that aspect, no tone controls is a good thing. However, sadly, a lot of my music is not of audiophile quality. In fact, there are some CD's and even records where a tweak, so to speak, of the bass or treble control can make an irritating sounding piece of music enjoyable again.

I am really into this for the music, although I love the audio gear too. I just really hate when my system choices limit me to the music I can listen to. My music should always come first. I don't expect my gear to make my crappy sounding music sound like my audiophile stuff. But I would like to make it at least listenable.

Sadly, it seems that tone controls are taboo in the world of Cutting Edge audio. Anyone else struggle with this?

 

[Wigwam Jones]

Sadly, it seems that tone controls are taboo in the world of Cutting Edge audio. Anyone else struggle with this?

Not me. But then, I possess nothing that would be considered cutting edge, I suspect. Perhaps the tube amp Squidward built for me. But even then, if I feel it needs a tweak in the tonal range, I happily do so. I just can't grasp the notion that I must listen to something I do not like because it is more pure than something I do like. All that matters (to me) is whether or not I like it. I can't fathom any other reason for anyone to do anything.

 

[nj pheonix]

I'm with you. While my main system has no tone controls, I wish it did. I have one integrated that I put a bypass switch in so I could opt to keep them. My next integrated is on the way and the tone controls are there to stay. As you said. Sometimes things need a tweak and in the end it's about the music.

 

[btus]

I almost always have to tweak the sound controls. I love to turn knobs(the process operator,a/c tech in me)to color my music. Wouldn't have it any other way! Each to his/her own!

 

[tomlinmgt]

I was thrilled to get an EQ out of my rig when I went to dual H-frame subs for my planars and ESL's. But when I finally got around to measuring the response of my QLS-1's in my acoustically treated room I was horrified to see a peak at 80 Hz and a null at 40 Hz that had about 15db between them. Well, I shouldn't say horrified...I could hear it but came to accept it until one day I said "enough". Back in went the 31-band dbx and with it a tailored response south of 250 db that has things looking a lot more flat. Any sonic deficit I've introduced with the EQ has been far outweighed by the top to bottom musical balance I now experience. I also recently picked up a dbx DriveRack PA+ to try its digital room correction feature. It's on the "to do" list.

- Michael

 

[ManyMoonsAudio]

How bout a cutting edge EQ option? Amarra has absolutely transparent EQ software that works wonders!

Of course, this is for digital/computer based music....

 

[Rrroberts40]

Hello, I am in a similar situation as you and will put forth some of the things I have done to deal with it...I have quite a supply of autophile recordings that matter to me how good they sound even more than the music type and listen to them when I want to "enjoy how my system sounds". but I also really enjoy the 70/80 rock etc. I have and many of those recordings sound bright, lack bass, are compressed and many sound just plain awful and I find I don't listen to them even though I like the music more. I have tried, if your cd player allows for it to voice cables that one set is perhaps brighter for those great recordings and slightly rolled off with fuller bass and actually switch between the inputs on the preamp to improve the sound on the less desirable recordings and did have some success with it...using cables as tone controls is not the best but you can have some success. Now I have gone to a computer based playback system and JRiver has a high bit equalizer that can be used to solve this problem and it works much better. I use the eq on the "rough" recordings and click it out and go direct with the "good" stuff...obviously their is quite a bit more to it than I have room to describe here but I would suggest you might want to consider this as a solution...I use a $400 laptop and well a very nice DAC but there are many nice DAC choices that are reasonable and JRiver 17/18 sounds great on my system running the playback.

 

[tomlinmgt]

How bout a cutting edge EQ option? Amarra has absolutely transparent EQ software that works wonders!

Of course, this is for digital/computer based music....

Hmm. I'm mostly doing all of my listening via MOG now and between my GF DAC-11 and MF V-Link 192 have a very nice sounding source in my laptop. I should probably give that EQ software serious consideration. It wouldn't break my heart to see the dbx EQ back out of the rig. :scratch2:

 

[slippers-on]

As I sit and mull over things audio related, this is one that I just can't seem to get my head wrapped around. I get the whole idea of short signal paths, and putting as little as possible into the signal path. From that aspect, no tone controls is a good thing. However, sadly, a lot of my music is not of audiophile quality. In fact, there are some CD's and even records where a tweak, so to speak, of the bass or treble control can make an irritating sounding piece of music enjoyable again.

I am really into this for the music, although I love the audio gear too. I just really hate when my system choices limit me to the music I can listen to. My music should always come first. I don't expect my gear to make my crappy sounding music sound like my audiophile stuff. But I would like to make it at least listenable.

Sadly, it seems that tone controls are taboo in the world of Cutting Edge audio. Anyone else struggle with this?

One question...while recording...you think they had tone controls? The reason I ask....The Vincent preamp has treble and bass controls as well as a loudness button. It almost turned me off from the purchase but it sounded so good. I got to thinking....they use tone controls all the time in recording studio's. If they can use them why not me. But I never use them...maybe 2 or three times while I've had the Vincent. I leave the controls off. But I would not be put into an audiophile box if I where you....being an audio hobbyist means you are free brother! If you need them and don't want to suffer buying or replacing what you have with better recordings, go for it.

 

[MikeT.]

My ONLY problem with tone controls is they are usually centered at a particular pre-set frequency with +/- setting at a pre-determined slope on either side of that frequency. Almost always, with me, the adjustments result in one note bass reinforcement or a boost in highs where it's not needed because room acoustics are not ideal.
Some great vintage equipment provide adjustable loudness controls or at least a choice of center frequencies for bass and treble that give you a choice. Ideally, a parametric equalizer like the vintage SAE were not too expensive and worked wonders. You were able to sweep a frequency range to choose the problem area, select a custom slope for +/- and select boost +/-.
I've considered some of the professional parametrics, some even SS tube hybrid that are incredibly flexible BUT expensive.
In the meantime, I just find tone controls in the classic sense just cause another acoustic problem. Just my .02 cents.

 

[62caddy]

As I sit and mull over things audio related, this is one that I just can't seem to get my head wrapped around. I get the whole idea of short signal paths, and putting as little as possible into the signal path. From that aspect, no tone controls is a good thing. However, sadly, a lot of my music is not of audiophile quality. In fact, there are some CD's and even records where a tweak, so to speak, of the bass or treble control can make an irritating sounding piece of music enjoyable again.

I am really into this for the music, although I love the audio gear too. I just really hate when my system choices limit me to the music I can listen to. My music should always come first. I don't expect my gear to make my crappy sounding music sound like my audiophile stuff. But I would like to make it at least listenable.

Sadly, it seems that tone controls are taboo in the world of Cutting Edge audio. Anyone else struggle with this?

The way I look at it Erik, is that if you feel the need for tone controls for some material and not for others, it should mean that your system is doing its job correctly- namely reproducing the material it's being fed. The fact that you may find periodic tweaking necessary isn't an indication the system is lacking, on the contrary- it's a reflection of the technical expertise of the recording engineers' abilities in recording production quality. If a system failed to reveal shortcommings when they were present, that should be taken that the system wasn't doing its job.

 

[JohnVF]

I must be a little less OCD about this. I try to set up a balance in my system where the bad sounds ok and the good still sounds great, using passive stuff like gear choice, speaker placement and room treatment. Seems to work fine for 90% of recordings, without EQ, at least to my level of compulsion. The day I'm getting up to tweak the whole system for one song is the day I pass the time some other way. Filling the room with record and bookshelves helped more than any EQ I ever tried, to bring about greater happiness with more recordings.

I'm not after some "purity" of the recording, and I will adjust the controls occasionally if I'm using my Accuphase integrated. But usually things sound better to me without them. They add, but they also subtract stuff. Something like Amarra might work better for me, as I used digital room correction for a bit and really liked it.

 

[rcspkramp]

Maybe the cutting edge solution to this problem is digital room eq.
The DEQX device blew me away during a demo at RMAF last year.

 

[slippers-on]

The way I look at it Erik, is that if you feel the need for tone controls for some material and not for others, it should mean that your system is doing its job correctly- namely reproducing the material it's being fed. The fact that you may find periodic tweaking necessary isn't an indication the system is lacking, on the contrary- it's a reflection of the technical expertise of the recording engineers' abilities in recording production quality. If a system failed to reveal shortcommings when they were present, that should be taken that the system wasn't doing its job.

And I agree with this 100%. I have several albums where I can be listening, and I can hear adjustments made in the music as they are recording. That's the quality of a good system at what it can do...If the system is not able to do it, then I would think its at the fault of the gear.

 

[tomlinmgt]

So, are we talking tone controls/EQ for the sake of making the original mix something it's not or to correct for acoustic conditions that create a spectral imbalance of content? Not that one is right or wrong and you may be talking either/or. I'm just asking if there is an intended distinction.

 

[JohnVF]

The best "tone control" you can ever get is an investment in better source gear.

 

[slippers-on]

I must be a little less OCD about this. I try to set up a balance in my system where the bad sounds ok and the good still sounds great, using passive stuff like gear choice, speaker placement and room treatment. Seems to work fine for 90% of recordings, without EQ, at least to my level of compulsion. The day I'm getting up to tweak the whole system for one song is the day I pass the time some other way. Filling the room with record and bookshelves helped more than any EQ I ever tried, to bring about greater happiness with more recordings.

I'm not after some "purity" of the recording, and I will adjust the controls occasionally if I'm using my Accuphase integrated. But usually things sound better to me without them. They add, but they also subtract stuff. Something like Amarra might work better for me, as I used digital room correction for a bit and really liked it.

But John...there are numerous recordings out there that no matter how you have your room set up, that recording is just a poor recording. If its recorded with no bass, there is nothing you can do but have a recording not playing any bass.

 

[slippers-on]

The best "tone control" you can ever get is an investment in better source gear.

John...come on man.

 

[JohnVF]

John...come on man.

I'm being totally serious. I think a lot of people are adjusting for mediocre source gear's shortcomings, and not something that got botched in the studio.

I'm also not saying that every recording is steller, but I really am not all that bothered when they're not, as I can sit through what's wrong and listen for what's right. And a lot of recordings have things that are right, that you won't hear on crap source components. So there's nothing there.

Call me a snob or whatever, I don't care. Its an opinion I've come to have based on what I've had, and its just an opinion. The only EQ I ever heard do anything that on the balance was more positive than negative was the MCACC room correction in the Pioneer receiver I had. I'm sure there are great options out there..I've been in studios, I've seen what they use and how well it works. But the usual suspects in home-audio just don't do it for me. The Amarra option seems like it could work for me, but again, I really am not into tweaking individual songs. I tweak the system to sound good on the most music and just leave it at that.

If you're constantly boosting bass...do you really think that many studio engineers botched the bass? Maybe you should get a better digital setup, phono preamp, cartridge, or preamp instead. Or more dynamic speakers. If you're constantly fiddling with the frequencies around the crossover points in your speakers...maybe its not the song that is wrong, but the 40 year old speakers with aging caps? And sometimes the problem surfaces because there isn't much else to hear in the system on this particular song, and sometimes the recording is good enough to gloss over it, so you think things are fine.

 

[tomlinmgt]

The day I'm getting up to tweak the whole system for one song is the day I pass the time some other way.

I don't miss this exercise in OCD at all. Once I have the EQ adjusted to flatten LF (I'm good above 250 Hz from acoustic treatments) I don't touch it. I don't find many recordings I'm listening to need any help. But there was a time early in my audio journey I was tweaking knobs and sliders like a monkey astronaut in training.