Around $1,000.00 ?

[pfcs49]

A Yamaha PX-2 fit's your pricing strategy, perhaps a little more with a high end cartridge.
Fully automatic and no setup hassles!
And sure to appreciate

(I AM prejudiced)

 

[steelgtr]

Thanks for all the advise, guys. I have to ask; How much of a TT's overall sound quality comes from the cart/stylus vs the tonearm vs. the platter, etc? I'm lucky to have a TD-125/SME/ V 15 III combo that sounds glorious but I really don't know what is most important? IOW. would a fantastic cart make a so so TT sound amazing, etc?

thx

bob

 

[Grenadeslio]

Thanks for all the advise, guys. I have to ask; How much of a TT's overall sound quality comes from the cart/stylus vs the tonearm vs. the platter, etc? I'm lucky to have a TD-125/SME/ V 15 III combo that sounds glorious but I really don't know what is most important? IOW. would a fantastic cart make a so so TT sound amazing, etc?

thx

bob

Synergy is key. In other words, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

[jrtrent]

Thanks for all the advise, guys. I have to ask; How much of a TT's overall sound quality comes from the cart/stylus vs the tonearm vs. the platter, etc? I'm lucky to have a TD-125/SME/ V 15 III combo that sounds glorious but I really don't know what is most important? IOW. would a fantastic cart make a so so TT sound amazing, etc?

I've found just the opposite; a really good turntable and arm can let a mediocre cartridge perform really well. In the mid-80's, I heard demonstrations showing how a Linn LP12/Ittok (at the time, their best arm) with their Basik cartridge (a low-end moving magnet that was included in the price of their Basik Plus tonearm) would get more music out of the groove than an LP12 with a Basik Plus arm using any cartridge one of the attendees wanted them to mount. I bought an LP12/Basik Plus in 1985, later upgraded to an Ittok, and mostly used cheap moving magnet cartridges with excellent results. I did once buy a Linn Asaka moving coil, but it wasn't enough better to my ears to justify its much higher cost.

A hum he could never get rid of.

That's a shame. Was it with a Rega cartridge? On my RP3, I've tried several cartridges, and I seem to recall there being a low-level hum with a Rega Bias 2 that I tried. None of the other cartridges had any trace of hum.

 

[steelgtr]

Since my previous response, it occurs to me that the Rega is not only fully manual in operation, it also requires removing the platter to change the speed and, with its non-removable headshell, is a pain to change cartridges on (not to mention the issue some have had with breaking the wires that attach to the cartridge pins). On the off-chance that a manual turntable that makes it easier to change speeds and easier to swap out cartridges might be acceptable, particularly if it comes at a much lower price than the Thorens TD 190-2, there is the Music Hall MMF 1.5. Only $399.99, it offers a knob to change speeds (including 78's), the ability to fine-tune the speed accuracy, and a standard removable headshell to make cartridge changing fast, convenient, and with no risk of damaging the tonearm wiring (replacing wires in a removable headshell is usually very easy and cheap, and even buying a new headshell is a lot less bother than fiddling with broken clips or rewiring a tonearm).

It gets very favorable reviews, and the one from avhub includes a fairly complete lab test for both the included cartridge and the turntable (it also includes information on how to adjust the speed accuracy).

https://www.cnet.com/news/music-hall-mmf-1-5-turntable-brings-sound-and-style-together/
https://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews/hi-fi/music-hall-mmf-15-turntable-review-test-512100

How about the 5.3 then right at 1K?

bob

I've found just the opposite; a really good turntable and arm can let a mediocre cartridge perform really well. In the mid-80's, I heard demonstrations showing how a Linn LP12/Ittok (at the time, their best arm) with their Basik cartridge (a low-end moving magnet that was included in the price of their Basik Plus tonearm) would get more music out of the groove than an LP12 with a Basik Plus arm using any cartridge one of the attendees wanted them to mount. I bought an LP12/Basik Plus in 1985, later upgraded to an Ittok, and mostly used cheap moving magnet cartridges with excellent results. I did once buy a Linn Asaka moving coil, but it wasn't enough better to my ears to justify its much higher cost.


That's a shame. Was it with a Rega cartridge? On my RP3, I've tried several cartridges, and I seem to recall there being a low-level hum with a Rega Bias 2 that I tried. None of the other cartridges had any trace of hum.

RP-1

bob

 

[steelgtr]

Looks like he went for a Project Carbon? Never heard of it but he was in a hurry and read good reviews.

Thanks, AK

bob

 

[Grenadeslio]

Looks like he went for a Project Carbon? Never heard of it but he was in a hurry and read good reviews.

Thanks, AK

bob

Project Debut Carbon, $399, $499 with USB port manual belt drive.

 

[lightcapture]

Too bad your bro prefers semi-auto
I just purchased a new tt after 2 years w/o. My countless research concluded the 2 best for under $1k are the Thorens TD-203 and Rega Planar 3 both at $700. I chose the Thorens for the better arm and I was able to find it with a better Ortofon 2m Blue cartridge.

 

[Grenadeslio]

Too bad your bro prefers semi-auto
I just purchased a new tt after 2 years w/o. My countless research concluded the 2 best for under $1k are the Thorens TD-203 and Rega Planar 3 both at $700. I chose the Thorens for the better arm and I was able to find it with a better Ortofon 2m Blue cartridge.

Look back one post, he already purchased a manual belt drive.

Also quoted from the OP.

"And he already went the Rega route not happy with that."

 

[DavidTT]

Buy a Pioneer PLX-1000 and be done with it.

 

[lightcapture]

Look back one post, he already purchased a manual belt drive.

Also quoted from the OP.

"And he already went the Rega route not happy with that."

I'm aware that he purchased already. Just giving my 2¢ for anyone else. Many reviews consider the Pro-Ject offers inferior sound quality to the Thorens and Rega at the same price.

 

[Grenadeslio]

I'm aware that he purchased already. Just giving my 2¢ for anyone else. Many reviews consider the Pro-Ject offers inferior sound quality to the Thorens and Rega at the same price.

OK, let's go with that lol.

 

[jrtrent]

Looks like he went for a Project Carbon? Never heard of it but he was in a hurry and read good reviews.

I hope your brother will be happy with his Pro-Ject turntable. Do you happen to know which "Carbon" model he went with? I think there is the Debut Carbon, Debut Carbon Esprit, 1Xpression Carbon, various RPM Carbons, and maybe others.

How about the 5.3 then right at 1K?

I suggested the MMF 1.5 rather than the 5.3 because at the time I didn't know the reason for his dislike of the Rega, and the MMF 5.3 also lacks a removable headshell and requires removing the platter to change the turntable speed, so essentially the same operation as the Rega.

 

[bluenote79]

Too bad your bro prefers semi-auto
I just purchased a new tt after 2 years w/o. My countless research concluded the 2 best for under $1k are the Thorens TD-203 and Rega Planar 3 both at $700. I chose the Thorens for the better arm and I was able to find it with a better Ortofon 2m Blue cartridge.

What do you think of the Thorens TD-203 now that you've had it for a few weeks? I've been running around in circles over which TT to buy. I basically got to the point of buyer's paralysis after months of deliberating. Just yesterday I pulled the trigger on a Music Hall MMF 2.3 mainly because it's about the only table in its price point with an adjustable VTA. Buuuut, I got it from Amazon and it would be easily returnable if I found that there was a better option. I can get a really nice deal on a TD-203 new or a Pioneer PLX 1000 barely used for $500. There are also a couple of vintage Thorens in my area for around $500 ( TD165 and TD160). Hoping to spend in the $500-$600 range and then put a nice $300 or so cart on it.

 

[wushuliu]

What do you think of the Thorens TD-203 now that you've had it for a few weeks? I've been running around in circles over which TT to buy. I basically got to the point of buyer's paralysis after months of deliberating. Just yesterday I pulled the trigger on a Music Hall MMF 2.3 mainly because it's about the only table in its price point with an adjustable VTA. Buuuut, I got it from Amazon and it would be easily returnable if I found that there was a better option. I can get a really nice deal on a TD-203 new or a Pioneer PLX 1000 barely used for $500. There are also a couple of vintage Thorens in my area for around $500 ( TD165 and TD160). Hoping to spend in the $500-$600 range and then put a nice $300 or so cart on it.

If an old Thorens is in the mix, that's a no brainer. Get the Thorens. It's suspended, sounds excellent, relatively easy to maintain/service, and they have great resale value so if you sell it you'll get the same price or even more. TD160s/165 seem to be running about $100-150 more than what they were about 5 years ago.

 

[bluenote79]

If an old Thorens is in the mix, that's a no brainer. Get the Thorens. It's suspended, sounds excellent, relatively easy to maintain/service, and they have great resale value so if you sell it you'll get the same price or even more. TD160s/165 seem to be running about $100-150 more than what they were about 5 years ago.

Thanks for the rec @wushuliu. As it stands my 2 choices locally are a

TD160 ($400 firm)
with a Shure M97xE cartridge which is already mounted and the original cartridge which is an Empire 2000 E/III. (rca interconnects replaced and a new belt installed recently)
or a TD165 ($525 OBO)
which looks like it has an Audio Technica cart on it. I've inquired about the cart and I'm waiting to hear back from the seller.

Which one of those would you recommend I go for?

 

[captouch]

Thanks for the rec @wushuliu. As it stands my 2 choices locally are a

TD160 ($400 firm)
with a Shure M97xE cartridge which is already mounted and the original cartridge which is an Empire 2000 E/III. (rca interconnects replaced and a new belt installed recently)
or a TD165 ($525 OBO)
which looks like it has an Audio Technica cart on it. I've inquired about the cart and I'm waiting to hear back from the seller.

Which one of those would you recommend I go for?

I think the TD-160 is better regarded than the TD-165. But others can add their comments.

One thing is you should be on a concrete slab with these TT's unless you use a wall shelf. I had a TD-160 and it didn't work with a suspended floor (i.e. crawlspace under floor) due to bouncing as I walked. It'll work fine with a wall shelf, which is what I was using. On a concrete slab, no problem at all.

 

[wushuliu]

Thanks for the rec @wushuliu. As it stands my 2 choices locally are a

TD160 ($400 firm)
with a Shure M97xE cartridge which is already mounted and the original cartridge which is an Empire 2000 E/III. (rca interconnects replaced and a new belt installed recently)
or a TD165 ($525 OBO)
which looks like it has an Audio Technica cart on it. I've inquired about the cart and I'm waiting to hear back from the seller.

Which one of those would you recommend I go for?

TD160. Provided it's in good shape and has all the parts for anti-skate etc. If the 165 is in better condition then take that.

 

[wushuliu]

TD160. Provided it's in good shape and has all the parts for anti-skate etc. If the 165 is in better condition then take that.

I think the TD-160 is better regarded than the TD-165. But others can add their comments.

One thing is you should be on a concrete slab with these TT's unless you use a wall shelf. I had a TD-160 and it didn't work with a suspended floor (i.e. crawlspace under floor) due to bouncing as I walked. It'll work fine with a wall shelf, which is what I was using. On a concrete slab, no problem at all.

And register at vinylengine to have access to the manual. That way you can know what to inspect ahead of time. Vinylengine is free (and a mandatory resource anyway for TT docs).

 

[lightcapture]

What do you think of the Thorens TD-203 now that you've had it for a few weeks? I've been running around in circles over which TT to buy. I basically got to the point of buyer's paralysis after months of deliberating. Just yesterday I pulled the trigger on a Music Hall MMF 2.3 mainly because it's about the only table in its price point with an adjustable VTA. Buuuut, I got it from Amazon and it would be easily returnable if I found that there was a better option. I can get a really nice deal on a TD-203 new or a Pioneer PLX 1000 barely used for $500. There are also a couple of vintage Thorens in my area for around $500 ( TD165 and TD160). Hoping to spend in the $500-$600 range and then put a nice $300 or so cart on it.

I like the Thorens TD203 very very much. I purchased it with an Orofon 2M Blue from Rutherford Audio in CO, the Thorens importer in USA. The combination has excellent detail and PRaT. It has a Thorens TP82 uni-pivot arm, almost unheard of in an under $1000 turntable. The plater is designed with a recess at the record label area from direct placement or LP on plater. It has electronic speed change as well. I was wavering between Rega planar 2 and Thorens and chose the Thorens for the better arm and better cartridge for the same price. There is a great thread about it on Steve Hoffman Audio forums too. I love this turntable very much. I'm hoping to receive a Schiit Mani phono preamp for Christmas to replace a Behringer PP400 phono preamp. I should be set for a while.

Here's my current system w/ Thorens as it stands now:
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/7358