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AT VM95ML stylus under a microscope looks . . . weird?

DorkusPrime said:
Just for fun, here's a shot of an old 0.7 mil conical that I'm borrowing from a buddy for some listen tests:
View attachment 2763047
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Speaking of listening tests: did you notice any differences in sound quality from before and after your first cleaning?

I've noticed one of my styli dragging a big dust bunny around and everything still sounded great. Conversely, I thought that a stylus had died of old age ( noticeable distortion, etc.) and it turned out that it was just really dirty.

I don't have a microscope but those jeweler's loupes are pretty handy.
 
Ortofon recommends using no solvents but I believe that's more of a CYA recommendation than a practical one. If they use an epoxy-based adhesive to attach the stylus to the cantilever, there is no way alcohol is going to hurt it. And, as far as getting solvents up into the cartridge, I would hope enough care would exercised in cleaning the stylus to not do that.

Doug
 
https://www.ortofon.com/hifi/products/hifi-cartridges/mc-a95/stylus-care/

"Ortofon does not recommend the use of solvents of any kind for cleaning of either the record surface or stylus. If necessary, records may be washed in lukewarm demineralized water with a dash of sulphonic soap. Remove dust carefully from record surfaces by using a fine antistatic brush or cloth before every use.

The use of solvents on the stylus and cantilever may damage stylus cement; interior parts of the cartridge can be affected seriously by the intrusion of solvents. The Ortofon Aftersales will not be valid in cases where such treatment has caused malfunction."

This also appears in the OM5 series user guide files on page 2. I've been using LM series and OM series since the 1980's.

https://www.ortofon.com/media/150506/om-5-series-userguide.pdf

That's warning enough for me, thanks.
 
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OvenMaster said:
https://www.ortofon.com/hifi/products/hifi-cartridges/mc-a95/stylus-care/

"Ortofon does not recommend the use of solvents of any kind for cleaning of either the record surface or stylus. If necessary, records may be washed in lukewarm demineralized water with a dash of sulphonic soap. Remove dust carefully from record surfaces by using a fine antistatic brush or cloth before every use.

The use of solvents on the stylus and cantilever may damage stylus cement; interior parts of the cartridge can be affected seriously by the intrusion of solvents. The Ortofon Aftersales will not be valid in cases where such treatment has caused malfunction."

This also appears in the OM5 series user guide files on page 2. I've been using LM series and OM series since the 1980's.

https://www.ortofon.com/media/150506/om-5-series-userguide.pdf

That's warning enough for me, thanks.
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Yes I know what they say but theyuse the same glue as everyone else, an Ortofon wont be harmed with alcohol. I have retipped enough and I wish alcohol did loosen the stylus it would make life easier removing them bit it does not.
Chris
 
OvenMaster said:
https://www.ortofon.com/hifi/products/hifi-cartridges/mc-a95/stylus-care/

"Ortofon does not recommend the use of solvents of any kind for cleaning of either the record surface or stylus. If necessary, records may be washed in lukewarm demineralized water with a dash of sulphonic soap. Remove dust carefully from record surfaces by using a fine antistatic brush or cloth before every use.

The use of solvents on the stylus and cantilever may damage stylus cement; interior parts of the cartridge can be affected seriously by the intrusion of solvents. The Ortofon Aftersales will not be valid in cases where such treatment has caused malfunction."

This also appears in the OM5 series user guide files on page 2. I've been using LM series and OM series since the 1980's.

https://www.ortofon.com/media/150506/om-5-series-userguide.pdf

That's warning enough for me, thanks.
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And their manual also tells you what they recommend for cleaning the stylus:

"For cleaning the stylus, use fiber brush a few times along the cantilever in the direction of the stylus tip, whenever you play a new record or change sides. Use the brush in the forward direction from the rear of the cartridge towards the stylus tip and never from stylus tip to the rear of the cartridge and never from side to side. This will take all normal dust and most of the slick release agent from new records. Following this treatment there will normally be no need for further stylus cleaning."

https://www.ortofon.com/stylus-fibre-brush-p-451

This is the stylus cleaning method I have followed for many years, a few swipes with a dry brush after each side of play. Seems to work well, and whenever I've had a stylus examined by my dealer, I've been told that the stylus looked clean under their microscope.
 
Doug G. said:
Ortofon recommends using no solvents but I believe that's more of a CYA recommendation than a practical one. If they use an epoxy-based adhesive to attach the stylus to the cantilever, there is no way alcohol is going to hurt it. And, as far as getting solvents up into the cartridge, I would hope enough care would exercised in cleaning the stylus to not do that.

Doug
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This ^^^^^

I've used alcohol based stylus cleaners for 5 decades on many different brands and never an issue other than a nice clean stone.:D
 
unless i missed it I didn't see anyone mention the magic eraser, if you use the que lever to gently dip it into one, seems to work pretty good. Would like to see the results under a microscope.
 
cafe latte said:
The Ortofon no alcohol thing is nonsense, they are as resistant to alcohol as any other cart.
Chris
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i am using alcohol with my ortofon's for years with zero problems...i think it is more of a standard manufacturer warning in case of customer complaints...oh, you don't like our beloved ortofon which we made with love and care, you must be soaked it in alcohol :deal:
 
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Chet63 said:
oh, you don't like our beloved ortofon which we made with love and care, you must be soaked it in alcohol
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Don't recall reading folks disappointed with Ortofon customer service. Might be true.

I know I would not use alcohol on Ortofon bonded tip nails and generally don't use alcohol anyway on any nail as I have other fluid to use on the DW SC1
 
Blue Shadow said:
Don't recall reading folks disappointed with Ortofon customer service. Might be true.

I know I would not use alcohol on Ortofon bonded tip nails and generally don't use alcohol anyway on any nail as I have other fluid to use on the DW SC1
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Why would you not use alcohol?
 
cafe latte said:
Why would you not use alcohol?
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alcohol is a catchall term for a few different alcohol chemicals found in the drug store/liquor store. Isopropyl alcohol, Denatured ethanol both can be called rubbing alcohol but the latter is more commonly found as rubbing alcohol and IPA usually is sold as isopropyl alcohol or isopropanol. And of course there is pure grain alcohol, 95% ethanol with the remainder being water. There is a eutectic point at about 95% ethanol that makes distilling to a higher purity more difficult.

These all can be solvents and I don't know what glues or other sensitive materials are used in Ortofon cartridges, wire insulation, suspension components and such that might be affected by them. Ortofon warns against using alcohol so I just don't use it. The alcohol will also attack the glue used in the discwasher stylus cleaners rendering them useless. The glue softens and migrates through the brush and glues the bristles together.

Older vehicles from the onset of lead free gasoline frequently warn against using more than 10% ethanol in the fuel due to degradation of the rubber components in the fuel line. Since this info dates to the 80s and we are now using E10/E15/E85 and all ethanol for fuel, newer components in the fuel systems are designed for the higher alcohol content of fuels.

There are other things that can clean a stylus.
 
Blue Shadow said:
alcohol is a catchall term for a few different alcohol chemicals found in the drug store/liquor store. Isopropyl alcohol, Denatured ethanol both can be called rubbing alcohol but the latter is more commonly found as rubbing alcohol and IPA usually is sold as isopropyl alcohol or isopropanol. And of course there is pure grain alcohol, 95% ethanol with the remainder being water. There is a eutectic point at about 95% ethanol that makes distilling to a higher purity more difficult.

These all can be solvents and I don't know what glues or other sensitive materials are used in Ortofon cartridges, wire insulation, suspension components and such that might be affected by them. Ortofon warns against using alcohol so I just don't use it. The alcohol will also attack the glue used in the discwasher stylus cleaners rendering them useless. The glue softens and migrates through the brush and glues the bristles together.

Older vehicles from the onset of lead free gasoline frequently warn against using more than 10% ethanol in the fuel due to degradation of the rubber components in the fuel line. Since this info dates to the 80s and we are now using E10/E15/E85 and all ethanol for fuel, newer components in the fuel systems are designed for the higher alcohol content of fuels.

There are other things that can clean a stylus.
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As a retipper I can tell you the stylus suspension is not rubber. My degree was applied biology so I am well awere of the different types of alcohol, I only recommened high purity isopropyl alcohol.
Again due to my profession I can tell you that epoxy is what is widely used to glue diamonds on. Many factory tips use a heat set epoxy which is very resistant and very hard. If someone is getting alcohol on the suspension and tieback they are using way way too much alcohol to clean. The stylus brush should just be damp and only the stylus tip needs attention we are not trying to drown the cart. The advantage of alcohol is it evaporatees in seconds so fluid on the stylus tip is gone a second or so after it was applied, it does not have time to migrate anywhere is applied sparingly.
I recently retipped a cartridge that had been regluarly cleaned using the alcohol free stylus cleaner. The silicone rubber sheet covering the coils due to contact with whatever was in this product turned the sheet into a hard brittle buscuit. It took me hours to carfully break away the rock hard coil cover piece by piece. This is why I dont like potions in bottle as we dont know what is in them, but IPA is what it says on the label. It wont leave any residue and it is gone moments after application and wont hurt stylus glue either. With any stylus cleaner if it is getting to the suspension or further you are using way way way too much.
Chris
 
cafe latte said:
If someone is getting alcohol on the suspension and tieback they are using way way too much alcohol to clean. The stylus brush should just be damp and only the stylus tip needs attention we are not trying to drown the cart.
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Probably why it is not recommended by ortofon. Don't know how someone is going to use it.
 
Blue Shadow said:
Probably why it is not recommended by ortofon. Don't know how someone is going to use it.
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Probably.
They are probably thinking of the lowest common denominator. Some people should never be near a turntable or stylus and for sure not waving a stylus brush at a thin fragile cantilever hence Ortofons instructions. For the rest of us there is really no issue.
Chris
 
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