opossumcrush
The Central Scrutinizer
Today I picked up a new AT120E real cheap. Would this be a good cart for a Denon DP-47f, or should I use it on another table? How good is this cart? any opinions?
AT120E information needed
- Thread starter opossumcrush
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KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Excellent match for your Denon. Excellent tracking and superb elliptical stylus. Sonics nice. Does need some breaking in. Excellent output. I prefer it overall to the AT 440 MLa for my needs and a bargain. More mellow voiced than the 440 lineup. Yes, I'd mount it. :tresbon:
lini
just me...
KT, CS: *giggle* Oh, come on guys, nothing aginst the 120E, but to call the needle quality superb seems a bit exaggerated. It's just a medium sharp, nude (round shank) elliptical on straight alu cantilever - fair for the price, but on an objective scale imo rather good than superb. Whereas the very good ellipticals would be the ATN130E and ATN135E, while the really excellent/superb ones would be the ATN150E and even more so the ATN150Ea.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
Mopic5
Super Member
Opossumcrush,
You've got a nice bargain there, with the lovely, warm sound of that "K" series AT cartridge, which accepts all the styli that Manfred mentions.
The basic difference between the 120e and the 130e is the tip size (.3 x.7 versus .2 X .7 on the 130e). To my ears, I like what the 120e digs out of the groove better. And if a record has a debris field in the groove, the 130e is going to be a little noisier. As far as the 150e goes, a beryllium cantilever is nothing to sneeze at and it may well deliver a superb sound that Manfred refers to - but superb is a sliding subjective scale - and I'm sure there are any number of high flyers out there who would look down their noses at anything Audio-Technica offers.
Getting back to your landing an inexpensive new 120e for your Denon DP-47f, you certainly got a super fit and a superb deal!
You've got a nice bargain there, with the lovely, warm sound of that "K" series AT cartridge, which accepts all the styli that Manfred mentions.
The basic difference between the 120e and the 130e is the tip size (.3 x.7 versus .2 X .7 on the 130e). To my ears, I like what the 120e digs out of the groove better. And if a record has a debris field in the groove, the 130e is going to be a little noisier. As far as the 150e goes, a beryllium cantilever is nothing to sneeze at and it may well deliver a superb sound that Manfred refers to - but superb is a sliding subjective scale - and I'm sure there are any number of high flyers out there who would look down their noses at anything Audio-Technica offers.
Getting back to your landing an inexpensive new 120e for your Denon DP-47f, you certainly got a super fit and a superb deal!
ChairSpud
Super Member
Hiya Manfed, OK maybe I'll give you superb may be a bit exaggerated but my feeling is that a more advanced sylus/cantilever shape doesn't by itself always equal better sound. For example many of my favorite cartridges have straight aluminum cantilevers like the Denon DL-110, Ortofon OM20, Grado Gold, ADC XLM MkII, Stanton 681EEES and all but the Denon have round shank diamonds too. Maybe a matter of my taste for midrange vs. high end or maybe just my tin ear. 
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Well, I am talking about how it deals with real life less than perfect records. Advanced tip shapes don't always give best playback. And AT tips are excellent quality in workmanship and diamond quality even on less than high end items. Analytical isn't always best. The AT 120 E/T is the sweet spot for the budget. I like it better than the highest end AT cartridges for most vinyl.
lini
just me...
Granted, guys, my viewpoint might be somewhat skewed, 'cause my records in the majority are in like new/very well kept condition. But even with the few not quite as well kept ones I haven't got much of a noise problem with AT's sharper, high quality ellipticals. So in my view the ATN130E/132EP is the most recommendable elliptical for the AT120/AT102P family - 'cause it's not much more expensive than the ATN120E/122EP, but one gets a much nicer, better polished, higher quality diamond with sharper profile and also the slightly better tapered alu cantilever. The ATN150E to my ears sounds even nicer, but that's a pretty rare one and possibly not quite as attractive in terms of price/performance as the ATN130E/132EP.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
Mopic5
Super Member
Hmmmm. Somehow I still feel we're being looked down on - as if in the trenches.
Anyway Oposummcrush, don't mind us. Enjoy that cartridge!
lini
just me...
M5: Nah, not at all - in the end it's just a matter of taste and system synergy anyway. And the info on the condition of my record selection was just meant to explain my point of view or respectively in what way it might deviate from the average. I.e. it's not at all supposed to claim any superiority or make my viewpoint more relevant.
So, if you like the ATN120E/122EP better in your setup and with your records, be happy, 'cause you get away cheaper.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
So, if you like the ATN120E/122EP better in your setup and with your records, be happy, 'cause you get away cheaper.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
opossumcrush
The Central Scrutinizer
Thanks for the info. I found the discussion interesting. I was thinking about buying a Shure M97xE, from Amazon. The AT120E was offered to me at $40.00, new in the box, so I went in that direction. It will be replacing a Stanton L737E cart with a D73E stylus, I believe has a dead side.
neobop
Well-Known Member
Interesting comment there. I guess it reflects the stylus' ability to resolve HF info. The 440MLa and the 120E share the same body. This info came from AT. So, recommended total capacitance load is < 200pF. This is especially helpful to keep the treble from becoming excessive. I have a 440ML OCC and with the stock stylus a resistance load of around 30K sounds best to me. But with a ML stylus with a boron or berrylium cantilever it sounds much better at 47K. Maybe I'd load it down slightly, but not 30K.
My conclusion is that the ML stylus needs the more rigid cantilever to control the output. One other thing, if you're swapping styli the compliance is dictated by the stylus. So check the specs on the cart that stylus was made for. It might require a different VTF, or be inappropriate for your arm. There are P-mount styli available that you could use and could be too compliant for a med mass arm.
neo
lini
just me...
neo (hi, btw! 
): The bodies should be just almost the same, but not quite - though I don't think that LC-OFC vs. PC-OCC really makes much of a difference (quite possibly less than the manufacturing tolerances of the generators per se).
And yup, one shouldn't forget that the AT120/102P family needles from the ATN130E/132EP up really are pretty highly compliant.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
): The bodies should be just almost the same, but not quite - though I don't think that LC-OFC vs. PC-OCC really makes much of a difference (quite possibly less than the manufacturing tolerances of the generators per se).And yup, one shouldn't forget that the AT120/102P family needles from the ATN130E/132EP up really are pretty highly compliant.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
neobop
Well-Known Member
Hi Lini,
I wasn't aware that LC-OCC was employed. I thought it was PC-OCC or regular high quality copper. I think we determined previously that the difference between the 440ML and the MLa was the stronger magnets in the ML. Could the wire also be a difference? I'd be interested in any info on the LC wire - which carts etc.
neo
I wasn't aware that LC-OCC was employed. I thought it was PC-OCC or regular high quality copper. I think we determined previously that the difference between the 440ML and the MLa was the stronger magnets in the ML. Could the wire also be a difference? I'd be interested in any info on the LC wire - which carts etc.
neo
iLUVanalog
Addicted Member
Granted....but missing the point....seeing how the 120 is the one HE ACTUALLY BOUGHT AND HAS, feedback/opinion should be provided based on actual experience with the cartridge. Recommending other cartridges tells the OP nothing about the performance of the 120.
lini
just me...
neo: Well, basically all the older AT120/102P family members had the slightly less pure LC-OFC - whereas PC-OCC came with the "renewed" 4x0/OCC and 4x2P/OCC models. However, some of the needles were downgraded at the same time - e.g. on the AT432EP/OCC and AT450E/OCC.
iLa: I don't quite see your point, actually... The thread starter asked about information on the AT120E - to which for my taste can very well belong a technical quality rating of the needle, including some comparative info on other members of that cartridge family and the quality of their needles, which might be interesting as such and also valuable for possible later upgrade considerations. In my view, in the end such information might be even more helpful or good to know than info on how the AT120E sounds to other users alone - 'cause pretty soon he'll know how it sounds to him on his system in his listining environment anyway, and which ultimately should be the only thing that really counts...
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
iLa: I don't quite see your point, actually... The thread starter asked about information on the AT120E - to which for my taste can very well belong a technical quality rating of the needle, including some comparative info on other members of that cartridge family and the quality of their needles, which might be interesting as such and also valuable for possible later upgrade considerations. In my view, in the end such information might be even more helpful or good to know than info on how the AT120E sounds to other users alone - 'cause pretty soon he'll know how it sounds to him on his system in his listining environment anyway, and which ultimately should be the only thing that really counts...
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
