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Audio Technica AT-LP120USB Super Mod Thread

On various forums, I've read lots of reports of sibilance and IGD with the AT95E, no matter the alignment used. At their price point and with how many are produced, I'm not surprised that some duds slip through the cracks. In the little bit I've listened to mine, it doesn't seem to have those issues, but I'm just not wild about it's sound in general.
 
DustyOldPile said:
I'm telling ya...ditch the AT95E. Sibilance disappeared once I put a different cart on. The AT95E is not a bad cart in it's own right, but it isn't well matched to this arm.

If you want to duplicate my experience, see the mods I made above. But you'll likely need the heavier counterweight from LPGear no matter what cart you put on...and you *will* need it to run the Empire that I have. You can get any Empire 2000 series cartridge body on Ebay and then the 2000 E/III replacement stylus from LPGear, track it at 1.5 g (no heavier) after aligning to Baerwald. Some people say that you can't use Baerwald on this table and need to use Stephenson, but they're full of crap.

Performance on mine rivals my Pioneer PL-550 with a Denon moving coil cart. The Denon is just ever so slightly more detailed on the Pioneer, as compared to the AT with the Empire. And, though I've isolated much of the motor noise, I can still hear it at high volumes. It's not objectionable as it was before I isolated it, but the Pioneer has no motor noise.
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Hi DOP,

I’m curious about the 1/4 sorbothane platter mod you’ve described. Are the screws completely omitted? Or are they rethreaded through the sorbothane. Having trouble visualizing it. Sorbothane is admittedly new to me(newb here).

Also, am I to understand that only certain brand/style/weight platter weights should be considered for a quality listening experience on the LP120? I had no idea it got THAT specific with these mods... of course, I ordered a cheapy yesterday... how bad did I mess up? I’m going to have two TT’s soon- the LP120 and an old Garrard that’s in a 60s console(work in progress), so I liked the idea of a built in stroboscope for the oldie(or is that just a useless BS gimmick?). Please let me know. I can always return it(yay amazon!).
 
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mike_drop said:
Hi DOP,

I’m curious about the 1/4 sorbothane platter mod you’ve described. Are the screws completely omitted? Or are they rethreaded through the sorbothane. Having trouble visualizing it. Sorbothane is admittedly new to me(newb here ‍♂️).

Also, am I to understand that only certain brand/style/weight platter weights should be considered for a quality listening experience on the LP120? I had no idea it got THAT specific with these mods... of course, I ordered a cheapy yesterday... how bad did I mess up? I’m going to have two TT’s soon- the LP120 and an old Garrard that’s in a 60s console(work in progress), so I liked the idea of a built in stroboscope for the oldie(or is that just a useless BS gimmick?). Please let me know. I can always return it(yay amazon!).
Click to expand...
I'm pretty certain she was talking about the counterweight for the tonearm. The factory one is too light and sits too far back from the pivot, or in some cases, is too light to balance certain cartridges/headshells at all.
 
Definitely looking to add a new cartridge to the mod list on my LP120. Does anyone have any Audio Technica recommendations? I get a discount through work and we carry an array of AT models. Looking for something in a mid price range I guess. Was looking at the VM530EN. I couldn’t figure out... does the head shell that comes with the AT95E cartridge work with all AT headshells or is that how they getcha?
 
beat_truck said:
I'm pretty certain she was talking about the counterweight for the tonearm. The factory one is too light and sits too far back from the pivot, or in some cases, is too light to balance certain cartridges/headshells at all.
Click to expand...

Ohhhhh! Thanks for clarifying. Missed that. Yeah I had read that also about the counterweight and was working on that. Does anyone know where you can get the ATCW-1? I couldn’t find any online. Or is there a heavy CW through a different maker that will fit?
 
I dont think that this tonear need heavier counterweight. I have AT95E and AT440 MLb carts and at these two carts everything is perfect without heavier counterweight. My LP120 is complete damped inside and motor with electronic board is catched on this dampening material. After that mod only where vibration can be sent to cart is spindle thru platter but this can be complete eliminate with teflon tape on tonearm.

If you dont want to damp TT, the most simpliest way to quiet motor noise is to use something like that between electronic board legs and metal plate under platter where that legs catch that metal plate...

HTB1tnNdphPI8KJjSspoq6x6MFXa8.jpg
 
DustyOldPile said:
I'm telling ya...ditch the AT95E. Sibilance disappeared once I put a different cart on. The AT95E is not a bad cart in it's own right, but it isn't well matched to this arm.
Click to expand...

Which is very weird, since AT had the arm/table manufactured to their specs via Hanpin and they make the cartridge they supplied with it...

At any rate, I TOTALLY plan on ditching the 95, believe you me, Dusty. :D We're only talking about it again because File had brought up the Eagles LP I recently acquired and which I had some IGD issues with (BRAND NEW vinyl).

If you want to duplicate my experience, see the mods I made above. But you'll likely need the heavier counterweight from LPGear no matter what cart you put on...and you *will* need it to run the Empire that I have. You can get any Empire 2000 series cartridge body on Ebay and then the 2000 E/III replacement stylus from LPGear, track it at 1.5 g (no heavier) after aligning to Baerwald. Some people say that you can't use Baerwald on this table and need to use Stephenson, but they're full of crap.

Performance on mine rivals my Pioneer PL-550 with a Denon moving coil cart. The Denon is just ever so slightly more detailed on the Pioneer, as compared to the AT with the Empire. And, though I've isolated much of the motor noise, I can still hear it at high volumes. It's not objectionable as it was before I isolated it, but the Pioneer has no motor noise.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info...

As for the heavier counterweight, I have read that this is only necessary if, at nominal tracking forces, the stock counterweight isn't tracking 45RPM records correctly (i.e. making the arm fly all over the place when there's slight warping) -- for what it's worth, I am going to see if when I get a 440MLb equivalent the counterweight gets pushed too far back on the post to calibrate it. If this is the case, I'll have to get the different weight.
 
beat_truck said:
On various forums, I've read lots of reports of sibilance and IGD with the AT95E, no matter the alignment used. At their price point and with how many are produced, I'm not surprised that some duds slip through the cracks. In the little bit I've listened to mine, it doesn't seem to have those issues, but I'm just not wild about it's sound in general.
Click to expand...

I'm not wild about it, either, Beat; for an included-in-the-box product, it's fine to get turntables up and running...but that's about all I'd say with regard to accolades.
 
Here's the deal on the counterweight. It may not be 'necessary' any more than replacing the AT95E is 'necessary'. You can keep it on the turntable and it will sound like it sounds. But if you want to *improve* the sound, you'll need the heavier counterweight. And if you want to use the dustcover and actually *close* it while playing, you'll need the heavier counterweight.

Audio Technica didn't exactly 'design' this unit. It more or less took something that Hanpin offered, stuck one of it's inexpensive cartridges on it and called it good. It barely costs more than a direct drive turntable did 40 years ago, so you can't expect that much went into R&D.

Think about it this way...if you can get the arm to balance with the counterweight closer in towards the bearings/pivot point, the arm is going to be more responsive up and down. The further you back that counterweight out, the more it's going to have a lazy teeter-totter effect and not be as responsive. That affects tracking ability.

As for the sorbothane, I used small square pads that are available on Ebay and placed them around the perimiter of the plinth under the plate. I used sorbothane washers where the screws go and ran the screws through the plate, then the washer, then into the plinth. I used the same screws, they are long enough. I used 1/4" thick sorbothane, which was enough to raise the platter enough so that I could set the VTA to be level with the Empire cart that I used.

Link to sorbothane. There's little reason that you couldn't just run the screws right through these. The screws are long enough that you could use thicker sorbothane as well. Theoretically, you could get longer screws and jack that thing up even further if you desired.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Isolate-IT-Sorbothane-Vibration-Isolation-Small-Square-Pad-1-4-Thick-1-2-x/112511302574?hash=item1a32323bae:g:8QMAAOSwTzlZhcRi&_sacat=0&_nkw=sorbothane+pads+1/4"&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313
 
I've used this one (120E version) of the current VM530EN. Nude elliptical.
Not quite as detailed as the 440Ml, but a great performer both on my Dual 1219 and SL1200 MK2. Never sibialnce - Seldom IGD.
I've only gone away from it since I've been obsessed with Shure & Stanton stuff lately.
It appears AT specifications removes 0.5mv from the VM530EN output, as the 120E specs out a 5.0.
I think you would like it much better than the entry level 95.



Audio-Technica-VM530EN-cartridge.jpg
 
DustyOldPile said:
Here's the deal on the counterweight. It may not be 'necessary' any more than replacing the AT95E is 'necessary'. You can keep it on the turntable and it will sound like it sounds. But if you want to *improve* the sound, you'll need the heavier counterweight. And if you want to use the dustcover and actually *close* it while playing, you'll need the heavier counterweight.
Click to expand...

From everything I've read -- not experienced firsthand -- the heavier counterweight doesn't actually "improve" the sound; this would be more a characteristic of a better cartridge/styli.

Now -- with regard to your statement that's bolded above: THAT is precisely what I was concerned with should I switch to a lighter-tracking cart; because the counterweight will need to slide further back on the post, I was concerned that the dust cover wouldn't close if I got a new cart like the 440 using the stock counterweight.

Audio Technica didn't exactly 'design' this unit. It more or less took something that Hanpin offered, stuck one of it's inexpensive cartridges on it and called it good. It barely costs more than a direct drive turntable did 40 years ago, so you can't expect that much went into R&D.
Click to expand...

Well, my point was that it seems odd that the AT95E (which some on this forum and others claim "this table, the 120, LOVES") doesn't seem to work well with the arm supplied on the 120; I see what you're saying about R&D and the fact that it's not really a design element created by AT, but it still seems strange that this arm can't behave that well with this cart.

Think about it this way...if you can get the arm to balance with the counterweight closer in towards the bearings/pivot point, the arm is going to be more responsive up and down. The further you back that counterweight out, the more it's going to have a lazy teeter-totter effect and not be as responsive. That affects tracking ability.
Click to expand...

Again, I totally see what you're saying -- I just don't think the heavier counterweight is that vital unless there's an issue such as the one we were talking about wherein the cover wouldn't close.

All of that being said, if the heavier counterweight improves trackability and moves the weight closer to the pivot point, couldn't the same be achieved, more or less, by adding weight to the AT95e using the stock counterweight? The more weight that's dialed in, the closer that weight rotates to the pivot point, does it not?
 
AJD1964 said:
I've used this one (120E version) of the current VM530EN. Nude elliptical.
Not quite as detailed as the 440Ml, but a great performer both on my Dual 1219 and SL1200 MK2. Never sibialnce - Seldom IGD.
I've only gone away from it since I've been obsessed with Shure & Stanton stuff lately.
It appears AT specifications removes 0.5mv from the VM530EN output, as the 120E specs out a 5.0.
I think you would like it much better than the entry level 95.



Audio-Technica-VM530EN-cartridge.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info!

But this is an elliptical, yes? I was looking to replace my 95 with a micro line...
 
AnzacSonata said:
Thanks for the info!

But this is an elliptical, yes? I was looking to replace my 95 with a micro line...
Click to expand...

NOT ALL ellipticals are the same. There's a reason they are priced differently. This one is their top elliptical. The VM lineup is real Japan made too - Not China, if that is important to you.
Microlines are nice. But if you were wanting to save a little cash...
 
AnzacSonata said:
Again, I totally see what you're saying -- I just don't think the heavier counterweight is that vital unless there's an issue such as the one we were talking about wherein the cover wouldn't close.
Click to expand...

There was a time when I had two identical Denon DL-300 cartridges, one mounted in a fairly heavy headshell and one in a very light one. I found a WORLD of difference in sound between having the tonearm counterweight tight to the pivot point (light headshell) vs. having it eased way back (heavy one) on a Pioneer PL-550. I even countered the light headshell by adding small weights til it balanced at the same point that the heavier one did, at which point the carts sounded identical. It was during this test that I formulated my conclusions that not only would it track better in theory, but audibly so.
 
AJD1964 said:
NOT ALL ellipticals are the same. There's a reason they are priced differently. This one is their top elliptical. The VM lineup is real Japan made too - Not China, if that is important to you.
Microlines are nice. But if you were wanting to save a little cash...
Click to expand...

Point(s) taken.
 
AnzacSonata said:
All of that being said, if the heavier counterweight improves trackability and moves the weight closer to the pivot point, couldn't the same be achieved, more or less, by adding weight to the AT95e using the stock counterweight? The more weight that's dialed in, the closer that weight rotates to the pivot point, does it not?
Click to expand...
Adding weight to the cartridge end is just going to make the counter weight go back even further to get the correct tracking force, which is exactly what you are trying to avoid.
 
beat_truck said:
Adding weight to the cartridge end is just going to make the counter weight go back even further to get the correct tracking force, which is exactly what you are trying to avoid.
Click to expand...

But how can that be? When additional weight is dialed in, the counterweight moves FORWARD on the post, towards the pivot point...at least it does on my setup...
 
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