Audio Technica AT-LP120USB Super Mod Thread

[Trekkie4]

Thank you, Trekkie (I'm one too!)…

That puts my mind at ease, a bit, regarding the VTA and arm height on the 120; the thing is, I AM planning on upgrading to an exotic styli on a cart like Audio Technica's 440...would the arm position STILL remain in that "below zero" stock position then?

Yes, I see here that your AT 440 has MicroLine stylus

This could be an issue, unless you work out the correct VTA for this kind of setup. Thing is, a standard conical stylus would be rounded, 0.6, 0.7mm in diameter. Even if it's elliptical, it is still going to be rounded 0.7mm in length, where the MicroLine stylus has irregular, or rather unusual shape. So remember, a sphere is a sphere (from any angle), therefore improper VTA on either ellipticals or conicals wouldn't be as audible and destructive on your records as ML stylus, due to tip design itself.

What I would personally do in your place is mount (and adjust) the cart, put on the new thicker mat you mentioned & then observe the tonearm position, to see if it's parallel to the record's surface or not. If the arm is still too high (leaning downwards), you will need to put some sort of spacer, or shim between the cartridge body & headshell itself. However, if the tonearm is now set too low, (leaning upwards), simply unlock the collar at the base of the tonearm & adjust it to necessary position, to the point where the arm is parallel.

 

[AnzacSonata]

Yes, I see here that your AT 440 has MicroLine stylus

Oh, I don't have the 440 (or an equivalent cart) on the turntable yet...

 

[AnzacSonata]

Yes, I see here that your AT 440 has MicroLine stylus

This could be an issue, unless you work out the correct VTA for this kind of setup. Thing is, a standard conical stylus would be rounded, 0.6, 0.7mm in diameter. Even if it's elliptical, it is still going to be rounded 0.7mm in length, where the MicroLine stylus has irregular, or rather unusual shape. So remember, a sphere is a sphere (from any angle), therefore improper VTA on either ellipticals or conicals wouldn't be as audible and destructive on your records as ML stylus, due to tip design itself.

What I would personally do in your place is mount (and adjust) the cart, put on the new thicker mat you mentioned & then observe the tonearm position, to see if it's parallel to the record's surface or not. If the arm is still too high (leaning downwards), you will need to put some sort of spacer, or shim between the cartridge body & headshell itself. However, if the tonearm is now set too low, (leaning upwards), simply unlock the collar at the base of the tonearm & adjust it to necessary position, to the point where the arm is parallel.

I think I see what you're saying about adjusting the arm once I get the new cart and mat; thank you!

 

[Trekkie4]

I'm hardly an expert on exotic styli, I'm sure other guys will be able to explain this in better & greater details, but yeah. Essentially it all comes down to styli shape, itself.

Spherical/Conical tip is perfectly rounded, from left right, up or down, it doesn't (shouldn't) care too much for perfect VTA, or even azimuth. I'm guessing this is why they use conicals on the cheapest of decks, due to their forgiving nature.
Elliptical tip is similar to conical one, theoretically it shouldn't care for precise VTA, but unlike conicals they DO need to have proper azimuth, especially when you go with better tips (0.3, 0.2x0.7mm)

As for Micro-Ridge, MicroLine, Shibata and/or S.A.S styli, these are irregular in shape, and require perfect positioning, in order to deliver full quality. I've been told that improperly balanced S.A.S styli can cause a lot of damage to the grooves, especially when they get worn (due to the fact those exotic tips are not wearing down evenly) so you need to keep an eye on their lifespan & replace them at the first sign of trouble.

 

[AnzacSonata]

I'm hardly an expert on exotic styli, I'm sure other guys will be able to explain this in better & greater details, but yeah. Essentially it all comes down to styli shape, itself.

Spherical/Conical tip is perfectly rounded, from left right, up or down, it doesn't (shouldn't) care too much for perfect VTA, or even azimuth. I'm guessing this is why they use conicals on the cheapest of decks, due to their forgiving nature.
Elliptical tip is similar to conical one, theoretically it shouldn't care for precise VTA, but unlike conicals they DO need to have proper azimuth, especially when you go with better tips (0.3, 0.2x0.7mm)

As for Micro-Ridge, MicroLine, Shibata and/or S.A.S styli, these are irregular in shape, and require perfect positioning, in order to deliver full quality. I've been told that improperly balanced S.A.S styli can cause a lot of damage to the grooves, especially when they get worn (due to the fact those exotic tips are not wearing down evenly) so you need to keep an eye on their lifespan & replace them at the first sign of trouble.

Thanks very much for the diagram! That is most helpful -- for anyone in this hobby, irrespective of experience level!

What I have found with ellipticals like the AT95E, at least, is that they're prone to horrific IGD/pinching distortion regardless of how they're set up; I know hundreds of users of the uber-popular 95E (as an example) defend this cart's performance, even claiming it tracks 100-percent clean right to the very tightest of packed grooves on an LP, but in my experience this is far from so. Conversely, I have heard from folks who have had nothing but headaches -- mirroring my sentiments -- with this cart and its stock stylus in areas such as excessive sibilance and end-of-side fuzzy distortion (even on BRAND NEW LPs; I myself recently received a 180-gram reissue of the Eagles' Hotel California from my wife for my birthday, and even out of the wrapper this record exhibited NASTY end-of-side distortion on tracks like "The Last Resort" and "Wasted Time," rendering Henley's voice almost unlistenable in nature).

That being said, I will definitely take notice to changing an exotic stylus when it's time -- my hope is that I like the sound of something like the 440, so that when the stylus eventually wears out I can just swap it out for a new one without having to replace and re-align the cart...

 

[Trekkie4]

Thanks very much for the diagram! That is most helpful -- for anyone in this hobby, irrespective of experience level!

What I have found with ellipticals like the AT95E, at least, is that they're prone to horrific IGD/pinching distortion regardless of how they're set up; I know hundreds of users of the uber-popular 95E (as an example) defend this cart's performance, even claiming it tracks 100-percent clean right to the very tightest of packed grooves on an LP, but in my experience this is far from so. Conversely, I have heard from folks who have had nothing but headaches -- mirroring my sentiments -- with this cart and its stock stylus in areas such as excessive sibilance and end-of-side fuzzy distortion (even on BRAND NEW LPs; I myself recently received a 180-gram reissue of the Eagles' Hotel California from my wife for my birthday, and even out of the wrapper this record exhibited NASTY end-of-side distortion on tracks like "The Last Resort" and "Wasted Time," rendering Henley's voice almost unlistenable in nature).

That being said, I will definitely take notice to changing an exotic stylus when it's time -- my hope is that I like the sound of something like the 440, so that when the stylus eventually wears out I can just swap it out for a new one without having to replace and re-align the cart...

IDK, I really love elliptical styli... I've been using Shure's M94E for years, in fact I still use Shure (M92E) today, and would pick elliptical Shure over AT any time due to the fact I love the way they sound


AT sounds too "bright" what people would say, I even made a joke about 95E a while ago & said how it almost makes my ears bleed But it's a great budget cart, especially now they've upgraded it with smaller 0.3x0.7 tips, so I'm keeping it as a spare behind the counterweight, along with the original headshell for quick swap if & when needed.

Speaking of exotic styli & tip designs, I would highly recommend that you watch these videos here:

 

[AnzacSonata]

IDK, I really love elliptical styli... I've been using Shure's M94E for years, in fact I still use Shure (M92E) today, and would pick elliptical Shure over AT any time due to the fact I love the way they sound


AT sounds too "bright" what people would say, I even made a joke about 95E a while ago & said how it almost makes my ears bleed But it's a great budget cart, especially now they've upgraded it with smaller 0.3x0.7 tips, so I'm keeping it as a spare behind the counterweight, along with the original headshell for quick swap if & when needed.

Speaking of exotic styli & tip designs, I would highly recommend that you watch these videos here:

Oh it's definitely a good out-of-the-box cart for beginners (the 95), IMO, but I never understood why so many seasoned vinyl folks buy new ones to put on really nice decks like the SL1200 and up...

Thanks for the videos -- I'll watch em as soon as I can!

 

[mike_drop]

From my experience, no. All the signals still go through the preamp's circuitry muffling the output. Here's a great video of someone who did a before and after sound sample of ripping it out:

It really makes a great difference as the preamp muffles the highs and makes the bass bland.

This is the video that convinced me to give the internal pre pull a try also. Very well explained. I also checked out your videos on YT as well. The combo of your video and the other really helped answer a lot of questions along the way. Thanks for posting!

 

[mike_drop]

I ordered and received 4 sheets of Sound coat the other day. Waiting to strategically apply it for the sound dampening, but waiting on a new tone arm wiring harness I'm going to order next week. Found one from AudioQuest (Wildcat https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-W...9819&sr=8-1&keywords=audioquest+tonearm+cable) at Amazon for $89 to replace from the Din with 4 feet of cable to the RCA and ground terminal. Was going to buy wiring and a DIN and make a soldering project out of it, but my soldering gun is big and bulky. Having carpal tunnel with arthritis would make it a very difficult project to complete. I recently posted on my YT channel Reasons Not To Buy An AT-LP120 USB Turntable that I've gotten quite a few views and comments (

). I will update and post a new video on YT showing my last mods with results. Just wished I had a sample of before I started this journey of when I first bought this TT.

How did this Audio Quest cable turn out? It’s a little pricey but I can see the benefits and piece of mind it’ll give. I originally started my mod by soldering clipped rcas to the left side of the board(on the jumped side). Now, bear in mind I’m a newbie and learning- so don’t shoot...To my horror while manuevering the second wire into place to solder something snagged the first and pulled the pad right off the PCB. I nearly fainted. I put the TT on the shelf for 3 weeks to clear my head and after some research found you can patch into the path a little further up. It was ugly but I brought her back to life. I REALLY wanted to try soldering directly to the tone arm like others on thread, but after the first crisis was averted, I wanted to play it safe. Now there’s this cable that has me thinking again, so please do let me know how it worked out. Also, did you bother with the cotton stuffing inside the tone arm when using this particular cable? Your help is appreciated!

 

[mike_drop]

Cheers to @vincei for the OP! You’re the real MVP! Also to those who have contributed. This has all been very helpful along my journey. So far I’ve performed a portion of these mods and I am starting to see results. I did a few things differently and I also have questions below. Please feel free to comment/advise.

WHAT I’VE DONE SO FAR:

• Sprayed underside of platter with plastidip spray(knocked down some of the resonance, but not all). Should I consider the sound dampening material pads others have used on top of it? Or is that overkill and I should focus on other areas?
• I bought some thick 4” rubberized cork squares on amazon. Be warned they stiiiiink and have that California cancer-causing material warning on them. I aired them outside for a few days and handled them as little as possible, so I don’t think there’s anything to worry about. People in the reviews have been fine with them also.
• Switched from felt to a cork mat, BUT I decided to spray both sides with plastidip(stripes cause I’m a dork) instead of layering one cork mat & one rubber mat like some people do. Two birds...plus I was worried about the height in that scenario... also, has anyone else seen this video where they layer coins between a cork and rubber matt? The video demos each scenario of several dampening methods, and the combination of ALL seems to show promise, but I’m wondering if there’s any others who can vouch for this all-out method... I wonder if the added weight will help with the rotation issues others have discussed.
• I used the o-rings like some have used but I’m considering the shrink tube on the outside. That just looks plain awesome when it’s on there. @vincei could you perhaps provide some info on the size? or even better, a link? Would really appreciate it!
• As I detailed above, I learned a few lessons early while pulling the inner preamp and soldering in new rca cables(I’ve since upgraded the RCAs vs. what’s pictured). The connection on the board is sooooo ugly but it worked and bailed me out. After what happened, trying to solder those tiny cartridge wires for a direct cartridge>RCA connection scares the hell out of me. I DO want to try this AudioQuest tone arm>RCA cable @VinylRescue posted, however. A direct connection from the cartridge to the RCAs makes so much more sense. Just want to make sure it’s worth the $89 cause I’m on a budget. If anyone else has tried this, please feel free to chime in.
• Im rocking a Marantz 2245 for my output, but something’s up with the phono section right now. I plan on recapping the power, preamp, and phono boards at some point this summer, so I can use the internal phono stage, but for the time being I’m rocking an Art DJ Pre II with a 12v regulated power supply mod instead of the 9.5v wall wart they give you. It sounds good, but nothing to write home about. I’m still hearing a bit of hiss that the hi-filter on the 2245 seems to cut down, but that also cuts the highs a little in my playback. It’ll do for now I guess. I really gotta do something about those blue LEDs though... woof!

TO-DOs:

• Heavier counter weight
• Heavier center/stabilizer weight
• Considering a marble platform with vibration isolators underneath... worth it? Or just a waste of $$$? That pulley system is AWESOME @VinylRescue, but it looks a little over my head at the moment.
• Mod the tone arm with shrink tube and cotton, possibly run new cables
• Change cartridge. $150-200 budget- any recommendations?

 

[jrtrent]

Oh it's definitely a good out-of-the-box cart for beginners (the 95), IMO, but I never understood why so many seasoned vinyl folks buy new ones to put on really nice decks like the SL1200 and up...

Perhaps just to hear how good they can sound. Stereo Times did a mini review of the AT95E and the LP Gear AT95SA variant back in 2007, and they started with the words, "The tragedy of cheap phono cartridges (and these two Audio Technicas available exclusively from LP Gear certainly qualify) is that they are likely to be used with cheap turntables and arms, and amplified by cheap phono stages, thus giving a false picture of their true capabilities." And while they found that these budget cartridges ran out of resolution, they concluded, "Linn’s old rule-of-thumb that the cartridge is the least important part of an LP playback system still holds largely true . . . even in my ‘reference’ LP system the two cartridges’ excellent musical communication skills allowed for deep listening satisfaction."

When I had scrimped and saved enough to buy my first LP12 turntable in 1985, the Basik Plus arm I bought for it came with a free cartridge, and the Basik cartridge appeared to be an AT95E but with a conical stylus. My brother ended up with that Basik body and used it in his Thorens with AT95E styli. His son now uses that 'table, still with the Basik body and an occasional new ATN95E stylus. Personally, I ended up preferring the even cheaper AT CN5625AL, and I've used one on 'tables from Linn, Well Tempered, and Rega.

http://www.v2.stereotimes.com/post/...-man-lp-gearaudio-technica-and-michael-fremer

 

[vincei]

Hi mike_drop, I'm glad you found this thread helpful. I had fun modding my unit.

As far as the heatshrink, I can't recall the size I used, it may have been 5/8". Keep in mind the slightly larger diameter of the tube with the shrink on it will make locking the arm a little difficult. It does look quite nice though!

 

[mike_drop]

Hi mike_drop, I'm glad you found this thread helpful. I had fun modding my unit.

As far as the heatshrink, I can't recall the size I used, it may have been 5/8". Keep in mind the slightly larger diameter of the tube with the shrink on it will make locking the arm a little difficult. It does look quite nice though!

Heck yeah it’s fun! It’s also and illness! I swear every task/tweak I finish, I’m digging up something new to mess with. Yeah that diameter sounds about right now that I look at it a little closer. Wasn’t really thinking about it- it shrinks der! So I’ll get 5/8 cause it looks about a 1/2” OD. I guess I was also wondering if there was a particular type you used but it sounds like any ol shrink tube will do. That’s a good point re the locking mechanism! I wonder if it would make sense to use two sections with a little gap in the middle for the lock? Or would that defeat the purpose and invite the bad vibes right back in? Thanks for the quick reply BTW!

 

[DustyOldPile]

Here's what I did with mine, and it sounds and performs wonderfully.

- Total bypass of the preamp. I left it in the unit, but bought some high quality shielded phono cables and soldered them in, bypassing the board for the preamp completely.

- Bought and installed the LPGear heavier counterweight, which IMO is a key upgrade, allows you to have the counterweight closer to the pivot point of the tonearm, which in turn means better tracking.

- Threw away the felt mat and got a HEAVY RUBBER one... Cork is too light. One of the problems with this turntable is it's wow and flutter spec, and that can be improved by adding weight to the equation. Weight = more mass = more stable speed. The Hudson Hi Fi one is a good one to use, mine came off of an old Yamaha table.

- Removed the platter, then removed the screws for the motor plate and installed 1/4" sorbothane washers and pads around underneath the motor plate. This is KEY because not only does it greatly reduce the rumble and motor noise, it also lifts the platter up so that the problems people have been having with VTA are resolved, you can finally lower the base of the tonearm low enough with this mod.

- Ditched the AT95E. It's a good cart on it's own, but it was matched to this turntable by accountants, not audiophiles. I'm running a vintage Empire 2000E/III and couldn't be happier.

- Use a record weight/clamp, I got one of those Ebay ones with the level in the center. Adds more mass yet.

 

[FileFixer]

@AnzacSonata

I have a same LP as you "Eagles - Hotel California" and I dont have any sibilance on same TT with same cartridge... Try to realign cartridge and tonearm...

Sound is not perfect on this video files because I recorded it with mobile phone...

 

[AnzacSonata]

@AnzacSonata

I have a same LP as you "Eagles - Hotel California" and I dont have any sibilance on same TT with same cartridge... Try to realign cartridge and tonearm...

Sound is not perfect on this video files because I recorded it with mobile phone...

Thanks File,

This tonearm and cart have been realigned almost exhaustively already, and I cannot get rid of inner groove distortion with it. As for the Hotel California LP, I don't really have issues with sibilance so much as I do with the IGD on both sides -- on the two final tracks, "Wasted Time" and "The Last Resort," Henley's vocals decay into a static/white noise-like mess that I have read is common with many other owners' copies of this particular reissue. This is the Rhino 180-gram reissue -- just so we're talking about the same release...

That's the one you own, yes?

 

[FileFixer]

Mine copy is from "Asylum Records" 1976. Cat# AS 53051, Germany, EX/EX grade.

This release...
https://www.discogs.com/Eagles-Hotel-California/release/10779890

 

[AnzacSonata]

Mine copy is from "Asylum Records" 1976. Cat# AS 53051, Germany, EX/EX grade.

This release...
https://www.discogs.com/Eagles-Hotel-California/release/10779890

I don't think we're talking about the same release; mine was purchased in the US under the Asylum/Rhino label -- at any rate, the issue is most likely originating in my AT95E (even though you are running the same cart) and I won't know until I can replace it (don't know when that will be, as we just bought a new 4K TV and money is like ridiculously tight). I do know that I have read comments by other owners of the version I bought who heard IGD on this, too...

 

[FileFixer]

Yes, our releases are different. Can you read Cat# No. from record and what protractor you use to align cart?

 

[DustyOldPile]

I'm telling ya...ditch the AT95E. Sibilance disappeared once I put a different cart on. The AT95E is not a bad cart in it's own right, but it isn't well matched to this arm.

If you want to duplicate my experience, see the mods I made above. But you'll likely need the heavier counterweight from LPGear no matter what cart you put on...and you *will* need it to run the Empire that I have. You can get any Empire 2000 series cartridge body on Ebay and then the 2000 E/III replacement stylus from LPGear, track it at 1.5 g (no heavier) after aligning to Baerwald. Some people say that you can't use Baerwald on this table and need to use Stephenson, but they're full of crap.

Performance on mine rivals my Pioneer PL-550 with a Denon moving coil cart. The Denon is just ever so slightly more detailed on the Pioneer, as compared to the AT with the Empire. And, though I've isolated much of the motor noise, I can still hear it at high volumes. It's not objectionable as it was before I isolated it, but the Pioneer has no motor noise.