audiophile: defining our terms
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You been reading American Psycho?
Switch our REO Speedwagon for Phil Collins and you're there!
stereofanboy
Addicted Member
My definition of audiophile is someone who likes to listen to recorded music, and wants it to sound good. I am an audiophile. So are you.
Different audiophiles have different ideas of what sounds good or realistic. Some feel that soundstage is most important. I feel that timbre is more important because if a six piece combo sounds like six kazoos or six synthesizers, I don't really care where it seems like they are sitting. "Listen, do you hear how the first kazoo is sitting right where the trumpet player ought to be?"
I don't even understand what is meant by pace, rhythm and timing. Is that something that improves when you finally get a turntable that has decent speed accuracy?
Different audiophiles have different ideas of what sounds good or realistic. Some feel that soundstage is most important. I feel that timbre is more important because if a six piece combo sounds like six kazoos or six synthesizers, I don't really care where it seems like they are sitting. "Listen, do you hear how the first kazoo is sitting right where the trumpet player ought to be?"
I don't even understand what is meant by pace, rhythm and timing. Is that something that improves when you finally get a turntable that has decent speed accuracy?
This is easy. An audiophile is a pasty-skinned white guy, mid-thirties with a black BMW 3-series (or maybe an Audi), a trust fund and a father who will pull strings to get him out of trouble with the local authorities He treats his door man almost as poorly as he treats his girlfriend and has no idea (nor any interest in) what life is like for the waitstaff at the dinner club.
He's spent not quite $83k of his Grandfather's money on a system that he uses to listen to two CDs: Eva Cassiy's Songbird and Norah Jones' Come Away With Me (neither of which he really likes, but they sound soooo good!). Occasionally, when he's drank a bit too much Glenrothes Scotch and no one's around, he'll blast REO Speedwagon's "Take it on the Run"; sit on the edge of the couch with his eyes shut tight, slowly pumping his first forward toward the plate-glass window overlooking The City. (That's some powerful sh!t they're layin' down there)
Mostly though, he uses it to watch John Travolta action movies
I thought we were all clear on this.
As long as you're constructing the straw man, don't forget to state clearly that he has more money than brains, doesn't really love music, and only has the gear to impress others. (do I really need to add a smiley here?)
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I've come to believe that an audiophile is a music listener -- not necessarily a music lover, mind you -- with an obsessive-compulsive disorder about the equipment used to reproduce his or her music.
Speaking personally, I stepped off the upgrade treadmill and gave up the borderline OCD behaviors some time ago and am much happier because of it. I can enjoy listening to music on my main system without obsessing over the last iota of sonic fidelity, and I can have fun repairing and trying out vintage gear without worrying about whether it sounds better than the gear in my big system (or better than today's mass-market equipment, for that matter).
Speaking personally, I stepped off the upgrade treadmill and gave up the borderline OCD behaviors some time ago and am much happier because of it. I can enjoy listening to music on my main system without obsessing over the last iota of sonic fidelity, and I can have fun repairing and trying out vintage gear without worrying about whether it sounds better than the gear in my big system (or better than today's mass-market equipment, for that matter).
That's a pretty accurate descriptor. I see myself in it...and sometimes when I'm switching stuff in and out I can feel the OCD kicking in, when I used to be much more able to just listen to a song and forget about what was playing it.
Which brings up another fallacy that I've read/heard- that you can't be a music lover without caring about the fidelity. Absolutely you can. One of my friends who knows the most about music and spends the most time finding new stuff, only listens to it in her car and an iPod. She's not an audiophile, but she's a music fanatic nonetheless.
Scuzzer
Fixed Bias
Awesomely written humor IMO.
krazygrrl
Well-Known Member
Is it this entire hobby, not all about emotion? How music, regardless of type, moves a person? Thus, it is completely subjective. I have an acquaintance who has had a substantial hearing loss that was the result of a massive ear infection where a surgeon had to cut the eardrum to decrease the pressure. As a result, he is unable to hear anything above about 8khz. Music played on his system, the way he has it set as he cannot hear the high frequencies, sounds like a boombox without tweeters. Yet, he is more of an "audiophile" than I will ever be.
I'm not sure if that makes any sense. :screwy:
I'm not sure if that makes any sense. :screwy:
Brett a
~◦●○o0o○●◦~
You been reading American Psycho?
Fixed:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4975209&postcount=20
RamblinE
(╯°□°)╯彡┻━┻
I want to disagree with you about one thing there.
If music is going to move you then it'll move you whether you're listening to it on a mega-buck system or a shatty RCA boombox. You can have a music lover who doesn't give a damn what they're listening to music on. I think the part that separates us from them is a constant quest for better and better sound quality. Not all music lovers have that drive.
nailer
audionerd
The radio station is probably using a Linn. :thmbsp:
Peter Walker
Well-Known Member
There are several confusions that keep appearing over and over in all such discussions as this one.
The notion that there's a dichotomy between 'detail, sound-staging, transparency etc' and so called musicality is just plain wrong. Take for instance the lush orchestration of Richard Strauss's operas. At times he's seducing you with sound, not melody and not rhythm. Supertramps 'Crime of the Century' contains some amazing ensemble playing (look it up) Bass guitar and bass drums on this album are so together that only a high resolution system reveals the subtle interplay between the two. For me this induces goose bumps and if that's not an emotion I don't know what is. On a lower resolution system the two blend into one - that's OK but it doesn't help you FEEL what the musicians are really up to.
OK, an ancient cassette player in a noisy car can give you a thrill too but let's not pretend it's ever going to reveal the full range of emotion and skill (some) musicians put into their work.
The term 'audiophile' can also be given a more accurate meaning by contrasting it with an accurate definition of 'audiophool'. And lets face it, the later is what most of the 99.9% of the population thinks we all are.
The notion that there's a dichotomy between 'detail, sound-staging, transparency etc' and so called musicality is just plain wrong. Take for instance the lush orchestration of Richard Strauss's operas. At times he's seducing you with sound, not melody and not rhythm. Supertramps 'Crime of the Century' contains some amazing ensemble playing (look it up) Bass guitar and bass drums on this album are so together that only a high resolution system reveals the subtle interplay between the two. For me this induces goose bumps and if that's not an emotion I don't know what is. On a lower resolution system the two blend into one - that's OK but it doesn't help you FEEL what the musicians are really up to.
OK, an ancient cassette player in a noisy car can give you a thrill too but let's not pretend it's ever going to reveal the full range of emotion and skill (some) musicians put into their work.
The term 'audiophile' can also be given a more accurate meaning by contrasting it with an accurate definition of 'audiophool'. And lets face it, the later is what most of the 99.9% of the population thinks we all are.
krazygrrl
Well-Known Member
I think you misunderstood what I meant. I was referring to the way Frank, my acquaintance, has set his system. Because of his hearing loss, it sounds muffled to me as he has set it to suit him. This has nothing to do with his gear. In fact, he has a very, very, very nice Pioneer CD player I would really like and some Bose 10.2 speakers. I had a set of these myself once, and they were very nice.
Yes that is true. "Crime of the Century" is an AMAZING album by them. I have been trying to find it on SACD for some time.
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Peter Walker
Well-Known Member
We're comparing apples with oranges here. What I was attempting to say is the WITH SOME KINDS OF MUSIC, the full emotional impact is not revealed with any low resolution system.I think you misunderstood what I meant. I was referring to the way Frank, my acquaintance, has set his system. Because of his hearing loss, it sounds muffled to me as he has set it to suit him. This has nothing to do with his gear. In fact, he has a very, very, very nice Pioneer CD player I would really like and some Bose 10.2 speakers. I had a set of these myself once, and they were very nice.
Yes, on LP via a revealing cartridge/phono pre-amp etc it's amazing.No digital version I've heard comes near the original analogue recording. If anyone knows of one I'd love to hear about it.Yes that is true. "Crime of the Century" is an AMAZING album by them. I have been trying to find it on SACD for some time.
aldread
Well-Known Member
The eight year old child who has been enthusiastically working to organize a box of relatively unimportant perhaps cancelled postage stamps is as surely a philatelist, as is the wealthy adult who spends $100,000s on rare stamps to categorize, and display an 'important' stamp collection. The are both stamp collectors!!
Philatelist and audiophile are equivalent words, neither conveys any sense of the success or elaborateness of the individuals endeavors. We are all audiophiles due to our desire to reproduce recorded music with the greatest fidelity we can muster. That said, finances limit most of our efforts.
But we can't denigrate the vast majority of members here as non-audiophile while elevating a few based on the quality of their gear, or their great verbal descriptions of perceived musical qualities.
I think we are confusing this with a program on the Food Network, while we all can cook, but very few are "Iron Chefs"!!
Personally I consider myself an audiophile, but call my self an audio enthusiast.
Philatelist and audiophile are equivalent words, neither conveys any sense of the success or elaborateness of the individuals endeavors. We are all audiophiles due to our desire to reproduce recorded music with the greatest fidelity we can muster. That said, finances limit most of our efforts.
But we can't denigrate the vast majority of members here as non-audiophile while elevating a few based on the quality of their gear, or their great verbal descriptions of perceived musical qualities.
I think we are confusing this with a program on the Food Network, while we all can cook, but very few are "Iron Chefs"!!
Personally I consider myself an audiophile, but call my self an audio enthusiast.
Nice comparison of audiophile to collector. I don't know any stamp collectors, but I do know a few gun collectors, and it's interesting to note that their collections are markedly different. One collects everything Ruger he can lay his hands on, another is primarily interested in black powder, another specializes in single-shot pistols. In any hobby, there is a vocabulary used to describe what people are doing and experiencing; in audio, it is the perceived musical qualities that distinguish one product from another, one type of audiophile from another. In audio, one person might "collect," if you will, the qualities of rhythm, pace, and dynamics, while another might be more interested in soundstaging, resolution, and frequency extension. We can all be audiophiles, but interested in different aspects, and different combinations, of performance, and, as you pointed out, finances limit most of our efforts, so we concentrate on the things most important to us. A person doesn't need great verbal descriptions of their gear to enjoy the hobby, but being able to tell why they like a particular product or system setup using the terminology peculiar to the hobby will help others to better understand what they were hearing and what's most important to them, more so than the common "I heard speaker A, and they 'blew away' speaker B."
aldread
Well-Known Member
Let's compare audio to sailing. A person who spends his life learning and enjoying the sailing of modest boats, is just as much a sailing enthusiast as the person who captains an America's cup yacht. I think the hardware has no part in the equation, its the interest and the dedication, period.
The gear one uses in either hobby is incidental, and is more indicative of their finances. Anything else is snobbery. Do you need pedigreed dogs to be a dog lover or is a mutt alright? Can you be an equestrian without a thoroughbred horse?
The gear one uses in either hobby is incidental, and is more indicative of their finances. Anything else is snobbery. Do you need pedigreed dogs to be a dog lover or is a mutt alright? Can you be an equestrian without a thoroughbred horse?
May I define your terms. ?
Some add, and the store, and an on-line add, and 5 other reviews, informed me, it costs $30 trillion for a fuse, and that fuse uses gold plated platinum not only the ends for cohesive rather than glued termination contacts for better joule transfer ratio, with real oxygen free glass, pure silicon, it even has a new heat displacement field, that counteracts real time phase, sounds sweet, allows power to flow, and they even come in packs of two for a little more.
The sound color flavor and true roughness is amazing.
Some add, and the store, and an on-line add, and 5 other reviews, informed me, it costs $30 trillion for a fuse, and that fuse uses gold plated platinum not only the ends for cohesive rather than glued termination contacts for better joule transfer ratio, with real oxygen free glass, pure silicon, it even has a new heat displacement field, that counteracts real time phase, sounds sweet, allows power to flow, and they even come in packs of two for a little more.
The sound color flavor and true roughness is amazing.
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The point of this thread was not to define what an audiophile is, but for audiophiles to define what they like about the gear they choose. The price is irrelevant, but the gear chosen is far from incidental because it's that that determines what we hear. At about the same pricepoint, a person can assemble a Sota Moonbeam II, Jolida JD-202A, and a pair Vandersteen 1C speakers, or you could get a Rega P3-24, Brio-R, and RS1 speakers. Both systems are good, both are "audiophile," but their musical presentation is quite different, and the systems will appeal to different people.
Whether we're talking about inexpensive speakers or multi-thousand dollar components, what I've grown overly sensitive to are the many posts in which someone will just say "I owned Bose 301's, and my Wharfedale Diamonds blow them away" or "I heard the Rega P9, but the VPI Aries-3 stomps all over it." It's not that I don't believe them, I just want them to explain what they're hearing that makes one more appealing to them than the other, and to allow for the possibility that someone else, with different sonic priorities, could well prefer the one they don't like (and still be just as much an "audiophile").
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tannyhoban
tannyhoban
I pick posts #2 & #27, some of #38.
Perhaps the word should be treated as "Lord Voldemort" in the Harry Potter series. "Those Who Must Not be Named".
seems many are obsessing about the obsession, just saying.
Perhaps the word should be treated as "Lord Voldemort" in the Harry Potter series. "Those Who Must Not be Named".
seems many are obsessing about the obsession, just saying.
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