Is anybody here familiar with the various B & O turntables? I saw a couple of them for sale. One, I believe, was a Beogram 5500 and the other was a TX2. I remember them from years ago. I seem to recall that they sounded very thin, dry and analytical but it may have been the system at fault, too, as they were usually showcased with entire B & O systems. I know that they used specific cartridges but I see that Soundsmith now makes replacements. Are either of these models, or any B & Os, any good?
B & O TTs
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The few I have had sounded great, when they worked correctly. I have had both the pivoting & linear tracking. That said, yes the proprietary cartridges are not cheap.
I have the Beogram 1600, 1700, 1800, 1900, 2202, 2402, 4004 and 6000, so I can say: I am convinced of the sound quality of these fine turntables, radial and tangential.
If they are in working condition they seem to work forever! Adjustment is totally easy, even women could do it. I never had to replace one single belt in the last ten years, which also is very easy.
The problem indeed are the cardridges, Soundsmith offers them in good qualtity, but very expensive. A German Ebayer offers retipping for 99 Euros, apart from that one has to look for good used cardridges, respectivley to check the cardridge carefully that an offered Beogram has installed.
I totally love Bang&Olufsen (and Dual) turntables!!!
:yes:
If they are in working condition they seem to work forever! Adjustment is totally easy, even women could do it. I never had to replace one single belt in the last ten years, which also is very easy.
The problem indeed are the cardridges, Soundsmith offers them in good qualtity, but very expensive. A German Ebayer offers retipping for 99 Euros, apart from that one has to look for good used cardridges, respectivley to check the cardridge carefully that an offered Beogram has installed.
I totally love Bang&Olufsen (and Dual) turntables!!!
:yes:
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I was recently given a Beogram 1900 with MCC 20E cart in good shape. The sound is quite good, not in the upper tier of what I have, but good.
The build quality of the table itself seems to be outstanding. The brushed stainless top is very solid. Isolation is very good (you can thump on the top plate when a record is playing and it is not audible). Nicely thought out suspension.
Platter is very light and rings like a bell. Too bad nobody makes an acrylic platter to fit.
The jury is still out on the arm and the way that cueing is done. Possibly my example needs servicing, as the on/off/cue button seems a bit sticky, but I have yet to find a good service manual for it.
And of course, they are all beautiful to look at.
I recall auditioning one back in the mid 80s and they were NOT cheap back then. Today, these TTs (other than the TOTL linear trackers) seem to go for very little money, due largely to the proprietary cart thing mentioned earlier.
The build quality of the table itself seems to be outstanding. The brushed stainless top is very solid. Isolation is very good (you can thump on the top plate when a record is playing and it is not audible). Nicely thought out suspension.
Platter is very light and rings like a bell. Too bad nobody makes an acrylic platter to fit.
The jury is still out on the arm and the way that cueing is done. Possibly my example needs servicing, as the on/off/cue button seems a bit sticky, but I have yet to find a good service manual for it.
And of course, they are all beautiful to look at.
I recall auditioning one back in the mid 80s and they were NOT cheap back then. Today, these TTs (other than the TOTL linear trackers) seem to go for very little money, due largely to the proprietary cart thing mentioned earlier.
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
The advantage is that they're all designed as integrated systems - so the arm and cartridge are optimally matched; no compromise for interchangeablility/compatibility. The downside is the same; one is saddled with proprietary cartridges (a la Apple Corporation's products - any flavor you want, as long as it's white!).
Fortunately for us, Soundsmith has kept the cartridge format alive (albeit at a fairly high price, but, heck, we're talking a very low volume, probably handmade article of commerce).
In terms of the turntable itself; b&o's philosophy was rather different than the status quo - then or now. The platforms are typically light (even flimsy); arguably more style than substance; but, I would opine, very much fit for purpose and the systems perform quite well.
I would call the sound of the b&o MMC cartridges as dry but accurate - not bad at all, and the tangentials track quite well (I have a TX-2 and I like it, although I am not using it these days).
Mark me down as a fan, if not a rabid one
specialidiot
Break Glass, Smoke Lucky
I had a 4002 that was very good but a modded Technics 1200 mkII kicked it to the curb.
Many say the cartridges are expensive, but I will say that while they cost more than a cheap Shure or Grado, they are in a class above them. For the money, they are pretty good.
Many say the cartridges are expensive, but I will say that while they cost more than a cheap Shure or Grado, they are in a class above them. For the money, they are pretty good.
dbxdx5
Super Member
I own a B&O 8002 linear tracker (their TOTL in the 80s) with a rebuilt MMC2 cart (by Axel in Germany). To me the sound is very neutral rather than dry, possesses great dynamics, and throws a wide soundstage when the recording has it. Other than needing to get the main circuit board resoldered once, it's been a fuss-free sonic treasure for several years now.
I used a TX-2 for many years with both a MMC2 and SMMC2 cartridge, as my primary turntable. Tracking was excellent, the best I've ever seen. Speed accuracy very good (can be fine-adjusted via pots accessed underneath) with no wow/flutter or rumble problems. The suspension and resistance to vibration was excellent. My primary complaint was the cumbersome and slow auto operation. It's a great turntable for spinning LP sides. It's less accomodating to quick cuing and selecting individual tracks on an LP side.
The SMMC2 is one of the best cartridges I own. I now have it on an adaptor to standard 1/2" mount, and use it occasionally on my Technics SL1200MK5.
The SMMC2 is one of the best cartridges I own. I now have it on an adaptor to standard 1/2" mount, and use it occasionally on my Technics SL1200MK5.
JonL
Lunatic Member
My first B&O was a 3404 that I bought new in around 1981. It was a few hundred dollars then. It was dramatically better than the Dual 1215(?) it replaced, running through a Dynaco SCA-35 and AR4x speakers.
Fast forward to a few years ago, when I picked up a TX-2 for cheap, fitted a SoundSmith SMMC-2 on it, and was blown away by its performance. It tracks anything, even a highly warped record. It provides imaging and clarity that's quite a bit better than my Thorens. I agree with all the following, especially this first quote:
As for the sound, I agree with this:
Regarding this next one, when I got my TX-2, I did some basic maintenance (belts, lube, speed and tonarm position adjustments) and it was trouble free for a couple of years. Then I started getting a speed instability which I had read was often due to failing trimpots. I replaced the trimpots on the circuit board (and recapped all the electrolytics while I was at it), and the speed problem is resolved. The recap eliminated a slight motor hum I had at 45RPM. I found the table to be very easy to work on. I personally find the automatic functions to be a pleasure. It's fast enough for me on the start/stop, and I find cueing to be really easy with the < > buttons. The light inside the unit is perfectly designed to highlight the bands between tracks, and I've gotten very good at cueing with perfect accuracy. I haven't yet found a way to get the light to shine on my Thorens where I can see the tracks nearly as easily.
Fast forward to a few years ago, when I picked up a TX-2 for cheap, fitted a SoundSmith SMMC-2 on it, and was blown away by its performance. It tracks anything, even a highly warped record. It provides imaging and clarity that's quite a bit better than my Thorens. I agree with all the following, especially this first quote:
As for the sound, I agree with this:
Regarding this next one, when I got my TX-2, I did some basic maintenance (belts, lube, speed and tonarm position adjustments) and it was trouble free for a couple of years. Then I started getting a speed instability which I had read was often due to failing trimpots. I replaced the trimpots on the circuit board (and recapped all the electrolytics while I was at it), and the speed problem is resolved. The recap eliminated a slight motor hum I had at 45RPM. I found the table to be very easy to work on. I personally find the automatic functions to be a pleasure. It's fast enough for me on the start/stop, and I find cueing to be really easy with the < > buttons. The light inside the unit is perfectly designed to highlight the bands between tracks, and I've gotten very good at cueing with perfect accuracy. I haven't yet found a way to get the light to shine on my Thorens where I can see the tracks nearly as easily.
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mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
I can only vouch for the very late production MMC-4 that I bought for my TX-2. I know it's not up to the level of the MMC-2 (of which I would have acquired one when they were still available had I but known)... but it sure as fug ain't warm. Stop by sometime and I'll be happy to spin a few discs for you.
SFBayArch
Super Member
no need, I already have your cartridge as well as the MMC-2
btw
here's an excerpt from a review from Grammophone:
SFBayArch
Super Member
I can't speak for every B&O turntable, but that's adjustable.
There's a screw under the top plate that lifts or lowers a leaf spring at (if i remember correctly) four points
JonL
Lunatic Member
Never been a problem on mine, and yes... there are suspension adjustment screws as described.
SFBayArch
Super Member
Don't want to belabor this issue regarding the voicing of B&O cartridges, but when I spoke on the phone to a fellow at SoundSmith, he told me the original MMC cartridges were on the warm side, whereas their own product were more neutral.
As far as anything I have read or gathered from my perspective listening with my own ears, warm is how I would categorize them - GENERALLY. Certainly not dry. For reference, I would consider the Audio Technica MM cartridges rather dry.
dbxdx5
Super Member
My two cents: In addition to my rebuilt MMC2, I also own a rebuilt MMC5. If I had to choose a direction on either side of neutral that their sound leans toward, I would go with slightly warm. Regarding SoundSmith's SMMC carts, I've read (but not heard myself) that they're a little cooler and more clinical sounding than the MMCs.
Von-Overkill
New Member
I have the Beogram 8000 and 8002. Both need recaps and a general going over. I bought the 8000 new around 1982. I know this guy in Denmark refurbs them for a reasonable cost, but shipping/insurance was over $500 for both (round trip) last time I checked. I have the MMC20CL cartridge on the 8000, and an MC2 on the 8002 (both in original condition). Very good looking turntables that were great when they last worked for me in the '90's.