B&W 705 Nice looking paperweights

[yacobotz]

Ok... quick preamble:

I ain't no audiophile--as will be evident.
Brevity - Not my strong suit.
But... I do have an affinity for quality products, and I do spend a lot of time listening to music across many genres. So a few years ago I run across a pair of Ohm c2's at a garage sale. I bought them on the cheap and found myself adjusting my music genre listening habits simply because of the audio crack that these new speakers provided.

Fast forward a few years, and today I now have a pair of Ohm L's, and Ohm I's as well. They're all set up and get use in the house (or garage.); compliments of my propensity to peruse C.L. on a daily basis.

I'm a contractor and a self admitted tool whore (I'm not a speaker whore/collector). In most cases I seek out the old tools as they're just a better quality product--generally speaking. In some cases there are certain advantages to newer products (Usually due to some technological innovation.). Anyhoos... I'm aware that there are some older speakers that are desirable(Certain AR's, JBL's, Klipsch, Bose 301 Lol And I get that it is a pretty subjective arena. And maybe it was naive of me to think that when it came to speakers surely this is an area where technology advancements would have some significant impact.

With that... I'm at a customer's house the other day and I'm closing out the bill for just a cpl of hours of work and I look out into his Great Room and at 40 feet away I know those are B&W's (803's or whatever?), so I say in jest... we could have bartered and traded the work (Only about $300) for the B&W's!?! So he says... well, I have some in the attic. So I go up and look and they're 705's in great shape, on the stands. So I end up just buying them for $275.
I checked first - I know there's mixed reviews. But I figured hey... they're B&W, they're only approx. 10 yrs. old, and people were paying $1500 for them 10 yrs ago. Maybe I'll be enlightened with these speakers that are several decades newer than any of the other speakers I have?!?

So I set them up in my acoustically optimum environment (My 600 sq. garage/shop and prepared to be impressed with these 21st century auditory delights from our friends across the pond. What happened? I wanted to cry! I'm a prissy bitch, but I'm the first to admit that I don't have a discerning ear (At least not like many on this site.), it's just not my area of experience/expertise. Be that as it may, it was readily apparent that these speakers... well... I'd love to be all eloquent and ****, but they just plain... suck! I might have questioned my judgement, but I have my Ohm c2's set up in the garage, so the A/B was a button push away. Yeah I know they're totally different animals. I certainly didn't expect the 705's to produce the same bass, etc. But without regard for that, there isn't a single aspect of the B&W's that comes close to being more appealing. They just sound like crap in every way (Sorry for the use of my advanced audiophile jargon there.).

To further bolster my case... I might have picked up a pair of EPI T/E 100's in need of new surrounds a year or so back. I did it myself and so I was in them for about $100 in total. I was pretty impressed. With their cheap-ass boxes those speakers sounded pretty damn good to my ear; even held their own in the garage with the C2's. I might have had a few cocktails and sent them a little too much power; not sure, but they're currently indisposed. Anyway, no doubt in my mind that they would have smoked these B&W's too.

So... am I missing something here? There's nothing coming from the speakers that would indicate to my novice ear that there's anything wrong with them per se. But I'm having a hard time believing that someone would shell out $1500 for these things. I mean... they are sexy. The Swedes did a great job on the veneer and telling your neighbor that the yellow stuff is Kevlar, well... that's gotta be worth something. And the stands could be useful in a zombie apocalypse (But they were an extra $400 or whatever.)
Just curious to hear some feedback from those more knowledgeable than I am when it comes to this stuff. Keep it simple, please; I'm not an audiophile, but rather a audioneophyte (Hey, I just coined that, but feel free to use it.)
And just FYi - No tubes here, nothing fancy. Just a Yamaha RX-v3000. The new paperweights have those thick-ass rubber Monster cables, and the Ohm's have some vintage 1970's style cheap-ass, twisted up, sawdust covered speaker wire. Just sayin'.
P.S. - If anyone in the Chicagoland area is looking for some beautiful, cherry B&W 705's with stands - I'll trade you for some iteration of Ohm's that I don't yet have. Or some AR-3a's.

 

[darkblue94]

Maybe try them in a different room with different electronics and see what happens. Do you have any seperates, amplifier, preamplifier etc ?

 

[Mrv8q]

As a B&W owner, I think you need to do a little detective work here.

All drivers working?

Are these biampable? LInks present?

I'd run a CD frequency sweep and listen for the results.

Good luck! They should be, at least, pretty good...

 

[OMGCat!]

I'd try them with different electronics and move them around a bit.
My 804s sounded like crap when paired up with an integrated amp I was running (which should have been more than adequate at 125wpc) but sounded like they should when paired up with a more substantial amplifier.
IME B&Ws like power and a stout amp to drive them.

 

[sqlsavior]

So... am I missing something here?

Apparently you missed an opportunity to listen before buying.

It's surprising what the ear and mind can get used to, and hard to tell how much one's preference is affected by familiarity, isn't it?

Just goes to show that descriptions like "just plain...suck" and "sound like crap in every way" are relative...

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Verify that there's sound coming from all the speaker elements of both speakers. Burned-out tweeters, missing links, foreign objects like rags stuffed in ports, degraded capacitors in crossovers, etc., can significantly affect the sound.

 

[darkblue94]

I suspect that the B&W speakers are more than a bit miffed at being placed in the garage and mated to unrefined electronics. They deserve better. Always make sure they're functioning 100% as well.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

... mated to unrefined electronics.

The Yamaha is a perfectly reasonable AV amp, but it does apparently have two 25 watt "effects channels", which are not suitable for stereo use. If used for stereo, it should be wired for stereo and used in stereo mode.

 

[darkblue94]

The Yamaha is a perfectly reasonable AV amp, but it does apparently have two 25 watt "effects channels", which are not suitable for stereo use. If used for stereo, it should be wired for stereo and used in stereo mode.

I was being 'tongue in cheek' more or less. The RX-V3000 is a very good AVR but these B&W speakers perform better with quality seperates. I suspect that the whole set-up would likely sound better inside the house as opposed to the garage as well.
There have been some B&W speakers that I didn't particularly care for but I wouldn't necessarily say that they sounded like crap.

 

[bhunter]

Ok... quick preamble:


So... am I missing something here? There's nothing coming from the speakers that would indicate to my novice ear that there's anything wrong with them per se. But I'm having a hard time believing that someone would shell out $1500 for these things. I mean... they are sexy. The Swedes did a great job on the veneer and telling your neighbor that the yellow stuff is Kevlar, well... that's gotta be worth something. And the stands could be useful in a zombie apocalypse (But they were an extra $400 or whatever.)
Just curious to hear some feedback from those more knowledgeable than I am when it comes to this stuff. Keep it simple, please; I'm not an audiophile, but rather a audioneophyte (Hey, I just coined that, but feel free to use it.)
And just FYi - No tubes here, nothing fancy. Just a Yamaha RX-v3000. The new paperweights have those thick-ass rubber Monster cables, and the Ohm's have some vintage 1970's style cheap-ass, twisted up, sawdust covered speaker wire. Just sayin'.

Take a look at Stereophile's review. There are several lines and models of B&W speakers that I dislike. BTW, Ohm's tend to get timbre right which is something that a lot of so-called modern speakers fail to do. I think that's the reference to J. Gordon Holt in the Stereophile article. OTOH, there are also B&W speakers that I really like, but those are usually the much more expensive models or vintage models.

http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/204bw/#STvXG6Xi03RBGJsU.97

 

[KentTeffeteller]

The Yamaha is a perfectly reasonable AV amp, but it does apparently have two 25 watt "effects channels", which are not suitable for stereo use. If used for stereo, it should be wired for stereo and used in stereo mode.

Not for B&W speakers, I'm afraid. Those demand good separates, At least a good integrated. P.S., the Ohms you have are excellent as are those EPI speakers, owned the latter at one time and loved my pair.

 

[Erik Tracy]

Not for B&W speakers, I'm afraid. Those demand good separates, At least a good integrated. P.S., the Ohms you have are excellent as are those EPI speakers, owned the latter at one time and loved my pair.

I'd concur.

I run a hybrid setup with a Yamaha RX-V1800 AVR, but use a Musical Fidelity A5 Int Amp (w HT Bypass) to drive my B&W CDM1NT (predecessor to the 705) as fronts.

The AVR does an acceptable job at driving the B&Ws at room filling volumes for music, but the Int Amp has the grip, power, and smoothness to make the CDM1NTs really sing.

But, it could also be a preference 'thing'. Maybe the B&Ws are not a good match to the OPs tastes.

If you are in the SD area - drop on by for a listen and a cold beer. AKer's are most welcome!

Most audio friends that have come over think the B&Ws I have sound pretty darn good.

 

[cratz2]

I've never been a huge fan of B&Ws (circa 1990-2005) but I would say they definitely like power.

I had a pair of CDM1 SEs which I enjoyed but never quite loved and never fully bonded with them for 'serious' listening, whatever that means. I tried them with several power sources but no way would I say that they 'sucked.'

 

[Mamrak1]

This is not exactly the same situation. I owned a pair of B&W 703s. They have two additional driver than the 705s. I loved those speakers but sold them to buy the next best thing. That was the biggest mistake in 40 years of audio purchases.

As someone stated, those B&Ws need top quality electronics to make them sing. Sorry, running them with a receiver doesn't cut it. I suspect the problem isn't those speakers but lies elsewhere, unless they are damaged in some way.

 

[yacobotz]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate all the input.

Speaking to some of the comments:

No, I don't have any amps or proper power sources, just a few pedestrian receivers (The V3000 being the best of the bunch.). I get that the power source can/does have a dramatic effect on the end product. I guess I figured if my receiver has the neighbors pictures falling off the wall when I'm playing my Ohm I's (Ahh no they're not in the garage), certainly it's ample power for these little ol' bookshelf speakers. And I'm well aware that I'm not doing the Ohm's justice, and I'm sure it's not an optimum power source for the B&W's either; but not for nothing... weren't/aren't the 705's commonly used for a surround set-up? I know this V3000 may not be top-of-the line, but I think it was 2nd from the flagship model in its day.
It's made in Japan (Not the communist Asian countries that all the models below it were made in.), feels about the same as lifting a 45lb. plate (Based on my recollection from days of yore, and I have to believe - Is more than sufficient to do the job, particularly in the context of the unrefined ear. I mean... I just brought the Yahama back into its home with the Ohm I's, and have the B&W's & Ohm c2's hooked back up in the garage to a mid-90's Integra receiver, and frankly I can't discern any difference on the output of the C2's or the B&W's.

I did check all the drivers; I didn't research what proper audiophile protocol dictates, so I just went with a rather sophisticated method of covering and removing my hand from each driver one at a time.

Yeah, they have 4 posts and they are connected via an insulated wire (Yeah I know there's an appropriate way of expressing that, but I'm not Google'n it.).

I'm not using Metallica to judge these paperweights. I enjoy a wide breadth of music genres, but I mostly reserve hard/classic rock, alternative, etc. for driving in my work van. I find myself listening to a lot of female vocals, and acoustic/bass guitar based music. Certain artists/songs just sound amazing to me as well (On my home speakers.). Wasn't previously a fan, but anything Mark Knopfler, Jack Johnson. The Stones Miss You (Dance version)--sublime! Not an Eagles fan at all, but the Hotel California version from Hell Freezes Over--epic!

Anyhoos... I do appreciate the feedback. I made a brief vid so that you have something to refer the newbs to - something that manages to capture everything not to do; all in one simple vid. Cuz I'm considerate like that. Yeah I know the speakers aren't supposed to sit 16" apart. Yeah I know the stands weren't built to sit on a workbench 36" off the ground. Yeah I know pretty much everything about the vid will be offensive to some of you. Yeah I know you can't actually assess anything with any degree of accuracy based on my vid. I just posted it for the hell of it, as I thought some my appreciate being able to put some kind of audio/video to my elegant rant.

So... try to resist busting my balls. I do appreciate any constructive feedback, and fully acknowledge the conditions are sub-par at best. Be that as it may... after I refoamed the cheap-ass Epi's I threw them up on shelves 7 ft off the ground, **** all around em, 30 ft. of crappy old speaker wire connected to them, and I was instantly impressed with them.

And I do understand... you trying to assist me without being on premise, might be akin to me trying to walk you through how to cut your crown moulding on that room remodel that your insignificant other insisted you could tackle yourself. Yeah... our delicate ego's worn on our sleeves makes us such easy targets for the savvy X-Chromosomes. C'mon guys! This is supposed to be an audio forum. Enough of the supposed witty off topic crap! Jeez!

Ok, just FYI - 0-10 seconds is B&W's only. 10-20 seconds is Ohm C2's only. 20-40 seconds is both. I know, I know, it's not apples to apples, there's no vocals in the first 10 seconds, etc. etc. Everything is set up wrong. I was just muckin' about in the garage and so it is what it is.

 

[yacobotz]

Oh... just in case anyone was curious: I was streaming pandora via Chromecast audio.

 

[OMGCat!]

I've tried to cut crown molding before. The results were...not pretty.

Sounds like the B&Ws just may not be your thing. Should be a fairly easy sell at least.
BTW I use the same test to check for driver function. If they're making noise they are likely fine and they aren't near old enough to have to worrying about caps being dead.

 

[Will S.]

 

[yacobotz]

OMGCat! - Thanks for the reply. You may be right; I try to be open minded and not necessarily maintain a rigid brand loyalty type mentality. I have 3 grand in Makita cordless tools - not cuz I think Makita rules--per se', but largely cuz at some point I just came to be committed (As I had 12 batteries, 3 chargers, etc etc.), but anyway... I'm sure some B&W Diamond series would blow my skirt up. And I certainly ain't trying to dis on B&W. Just describing my experience. Thanks for the supportive sentiments on my driver test.


Not to get all Nietzsche-esque and ****, but I think a vast majority of things in life we assess/judge/whatever based on s comparative measure. I'm a decisive kind of guy, but as an example... my girl might hold up a garment on a hanger and ask... whach you think? I typically go with something like... I can much better give you my opinion if you put it on. (My honest opinion that is. I know... sometimes we're supposed to lie--always a difficult proposition for me.) Furthermore... ideally... i'd love the chance for an A/B split test. Anyway, point being... I may not be well versed enough to properly assess speakers independently in a new environment. But hearing A/B within a few seconds of each other, the results have always been readily apparent. And honestly... these paperweights... I didn't even need to hear my other speaker. As soon as I heard them I knew... they weren't anything remarkable, and I was just plain disappointed. IDK, anyway... I do appreciate the feedback.

 

[yacobotz]

Thanks Will, I'll just assume that's due to my charm and brilliant wit.
As a side note... I was in the running for Most Modest Employee of the month. Unfortunately I came in 7th. But... there was 8 of us; #8 had a real God Complex, but whatever!?