Exactly my point! I couldn't care less about measurements of uncorrelated sine waves. Which test tones do you like to listen to?
My preamp doesn't rely on applying boatloads of corrective feedback for operation. None.
Balanced vs unbalanced cables.
- Thread starter Bob C
- Start date
My preamp doesn't rely on applying boatloads of corrective feedback for operation. None.
wyn palmer
Addicted Member
wyn palmer
Addicted Member
My last word on this.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Moving-the-Goalposts
Always a pleasure, @E-Stat.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Moving-the-Goalposts
Always a pleasure, @E-Stat.
Schroedinger
Cars and Guitars
I was going to point out the same. The "less sensitive to cables" idea has nothing to do with balanced signals and everything to do with source and load impedances. Purely theoretically and all other things equal, a balanced signal strategy would be more sensitive to cable properties, not less. Whether or not it matters is a different question.
It is exactly what my experience across past fifty years has indicated in terms of what you hear. Cables with higher EDC have less affect on the devices to which they are connected in a balanced configuration.
twiiii
Lunatic Member
Back in the days when when I Had MX 119 you could easily hear the difference between balanced cables versus coaxial and digital coax. As my EQ is balanced as is the electronic crossovers I have been using balanced whether the system was stereo or up dated to HT . Now that I have the MX 151, the MVP 891 and MCD 550 telling the difference between balanced and digital is impossible. That because the MX 151 is 24/ 192 internally. Even by passing the MX 151 and using totally balanced to the amps driving the speakers I can't tell the difference providing I am using a good source. But like LP's there are a lot of compromised digital recordings out there. The only reason to truly need balanced cable is if your amps are on a different power circuit from the pre-amp and source possibly allowing ground loops or other interference to become an issue. If you get a hum remember just lift the ground pin feeding the amps. The shield will be grounded at the pre-amp end protecting the two signal cable feed the amp channels. CAn't do that with single conductor un balanced connections.
twiiii
Lunatic Member
The NEC code prevents you from isolating the ground plug on your amplifiers also. If there is a fire caused by the amp connection your insurance company won't pay, so be fore warned. So that means isolation transformers or an electronic repeat device, which all audiophiles frown upon. So for sure that when you want blanced signal lines. Other wise you need AWG # 10 or 8 gauge speaker lines much more than 25 feet with a four ohm load. Remember the internal impedance of the wire ought to be less than 2 or 3% of the speaker for the amp to have sufficient control of the drivers used with a low loss crossover.
Thats why I prefer speaker systems with critically damped woofers making it easier on the amps to give accurate reproduction with out the need of large guage speaker wire. I have both types of speakers. You can tell the difference below 300 HZ for sure between critically damped woofers and those that are not. There is easily a magnitude of difference between the two woofer types as far as distortion and fuzziness. Having Magnetic field shorting rings in the woofers helps tremendously reducing the magnitudes of IM and harmonic distortion. Thats why I prefer JBL woofers over Altec, Klipsch, and other efficient speaker systems. But then Cornwall is still my favorite efficient speaker, But I haven't head a Jubilee yet.
Thats why I prefer speaker systems with critically damped woofers making it easier on the amps to give accurate reproduction with out the need of large guage speaker wire. I have both types of speakers. You can tell the difference below 300 HZ for sure between critically damped woofers and those that are not. There is easily a magnitude of difference between the two woofer types as far as distortion and fuzziness. Having Magnetic field shorting rings in the woofers helps tremendously reducing the magnitudes of IM and harmonic distortion. Thats why I prefer JBL woofers over Altec, Klipsch, and other efficient speaker systems. But then Cornwall is still my favorite efficient speaker, But I haven't head a Jubilee yet.
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Question should be not about cables, but system design. If you have balanced (symmetric) system you should use balanced cables, if not - unbalanced. Balanced system is better of course especially for long distances. In unbalanced system you can use so called "semi or pseudo balanced" layout where balanced cable is used but shield is connected together with "cold" wire only at cable input connector. If you have seen arrows on balanced cables, is does not mean "signal flow direction", but to determine at which end shield is connected if cable is used in pseudo-balanced layout..
If that was directed at me, what? I agree, if you have balanced capabilities, you probably should use them. And the OP has the capability.
What I don't know is if he will hear any difference in his room, with his gear, and his ears. If so great! If not, it's a fun experiment anyway.
Given @Bob C's somewhat unique situation, I simply think cable concerns should be short-term issues. Set it and forget it. Gear is fun, but it's all about the music....
What I don't know is if he will hear any difference in his room, with his gear, and his ears. If so great! If not, it's a fun experiment anyway.
Given @Bob C's somewhat unique situation, I simply think cable concerns should be short-term issues. Set it and forget it. Gear is fun, but it's all about the music....
Bob C
Active Member
I appreciate your advice. I’m not an audiophile, but I would like the best sound from my system. What does OP mean? I know I should work out the problem with getting the MX136 menu to show on my tv, but when I set the preamp to “set up”, I couldn’t see the menu on any tv input. I think I may just go back to unbalanced cables, it’s a very short run to my preamp and it did sound great before I switched them. BTW the only hdmi I have connected is from the monitor out on the preamp to the tv.
Bob C
Active Member
If I’m using balanced cables between the phono preamp and the MX136 preamp, do I also need to run balanced cables between the preamp to the MC7205 amp?
It is always better to use balanced cables if your system has balanced I/O option. You do not need something esoteric simply good microphone cables.
Bob C
Active Member
I guess I could get two more balanced cables to run between the preamp and amp. In the past, looking at the balanced ports on the preamp, I recall a stripped screw or something that would prevent me from using one of the outputs. Since adding the balanced cables from the phono preamp to the Main preamp, I didn’t need to screw in any of the cables, so…. I don’t want it to look like I’m looking for sympathy, but it is REALLY a pain to adjust anything behind the equipment , I did buy a set of casters in case I need to take everything down again. Since my shelves for my set up depend on the weight of the equipment to hold shelves in place so I need to pull the shelves out to get to the wiring, I pull the shelves out by the very bottom shelf on carpet. Physically, I had both knees replaced, 3 discs fused in my lower back and about 5 discs fused in my neck, a rotator cuff tear and bone spur under my shoulder muscle. Mentally, I had to quit drinking and smoking cigarettes 6 Months ago, so I smoke medical marijuana and Norco and muscle relaxers for pain and chemotherapy may muddy my brain too! The only upside is, when I get it right, the music sounds wonderful!!