Bearing Oil for your turntable?
- Thread starter ProAc_Fan
- Start date
Automann
New Member
I would not recommend 3in1 oil as it has been modified to improve penetrating action to free up seized bolts etc and after 25 years in the automotive industry, I can assure you Grumpy is right, if you want to kill a good table lube it with old engine oil. :sigh:
I value my turntable and want to enjoy it at it’s best for as long as possible so I brought a 250ml/ ¼ pint bottle of good quality synthetic lubricating oil (Mobil 0w-40w).
Carefully lifted the spindle from the bearing then mopped up the last of the old oil left in the bearing housing and shaft.
Next top bearing housing up till about ½” from the top, place some old rags about 2” around the bearing, (to catch spillage) then insert shaft into the bearing and walk away and leave it for a couple of hours or overnight(while gravity helps the table settle down till gets fully home).
(do NOT be tempted to help it with a big hand)
Next reassemble the belt etc and play a few records. :yes:
I value my turntable and want to enjoy it at it’s best for as long as possible so I brought a 250ml/ ¼ pint bottle of good quality synthetic lubricating oil (Mobil 0w-40w).
Carefully lifted the spindle from the bearing then mopped up the last of the old oil left in the bearing housing and shaft.
Next top bearing housing up till about ½” from the top, place some old rags about 2” around the bearing, (to catch spillage) then insert shaft into the bearing and walk away and leave it for a couple of hours or overnight(while gravity helps the table settle down till gets fully home).
(do NOT be tempted to help it with a big hand)
Next reassemble the belt etc and play a few records. :yes:
DanTana said:I bought some RemOil from Walmarts, gun oil with teflon. Very light viscosity, but with teflon for wear resistance. Worked great and was really cheap. Good enough for a Glock 17
Sounds like you want to shoot your TT, not lubricate the bearing (BTW, aren't Glocks plastic?).
Absolutely with Grumpy on this one. If you want to take a chance with your $200 bearing/motor, that is your business. But it only takes a bit of research to find out what the manufacturer recommends. Some bearings are inverted and others ride on teflon balls and others are bronze with graphite, and some are even running on a jeweled surface, etc., etc., etc.
If you want it to work well for the long haul then do a little digging on the internet and find out what is needed and use that. Or, don't. Its your money and TT.
Editing this as I sent to Joel at the "Turntable Factory" and got this reply. He has ask for the link to this thread, which I'll send along. Perhaps he will reply directly. Here is my question and his response (complete):
Hi..
Fact of the matter is, I DO have an opinion here:
"If the turntable manufacturers had any better knowledge than we do
about lubricants, we wouldn't now have turntables that have oil that
turned to muck, nor grease that turned to glue" You can quote me on that!
Turntables, like cars, were built with "planned obsolescence" in
mind. For the most part, a turntable's expected "useful" life was
probably 5 years, as you'd want to upgrade as "newer & better" came
along. You'll note that service manuals for turntables mention NOTHING
about cleaning off old grease that has hardened when giving
troubleshooting tips. Although some gave recommendations about
lubricants, those recommendations were mostly based on what was easily
available at the time of manufacture, and the country turntable was
manufactured in... as well as the costs of procurement of the lubricants.
Personally, when we service the average turntable, we use Wacker
silicon AK300,000 or 500,000 for damping issues, 3-in-1 oil where oil is
required, and high-temperature automotive wheel-bearing grease where
grease is called for. We also use these lubricants sparingly, as often
they were originally just used to quiet down the functions of the
automechanisms, and over time, made those functions inoperative.
Keep in mind that all the above is my opinion, and based only on what
I have seen for the last 30 years. I'm no chemist nor engineer. Hope
I've been a help.. if you DO post any of my comments, would you mind
sending me a link? Thanks, have a great weekend... Joel
gpdavis@comcast.net wrote:
> Hello Joel:
>
> We are arguing on the AudioKarma.org forum about TT bearing oil. Some
> folks are stating that most any automotive oil is fine, so say 3-in-1
> household oil, some say this, some say that. I say stick with the
> original manufacturer's recommendation.
>
> Am wondering if you might say something that I can quote you on in the
> forum?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Glenn Davis
For sales and service of vintage and classic record playing systems:
http://www.TheTurntableFactory.com
>>>>>Check us out!<<<<<
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WhiskeyRebel
Registered thread killer
While we are on the topic of lubricating bearings, what would be a good oil to add to the bearings in my reel-to-reel deck? I have it apart to change its belt and thought I'd give it an oiling before it goes back together. Her are what I have on hand:
motor oil (not used)
Slick 50 One Lube (penetrating lubricant with teflon, worked awesome on a noisy ceiling fan FWIW)
WD 40 (I know, DON'T it will do more harm than good, but I have it on the off chance that it is what to use)
sewing machine oil
hoppe's gun oil
mineral oil
For that matter, if all the rotating parts seem to spin freely, should I leave the bearings alone and add no oil at all?
motor oil (not used)
Slick 50 One Lube (penetrating lubricant with teflon, worked awesome on a noisy ceiling fan FWIW)
WD 40 (I know, DON'T it will do more harm than good, but I have it on the off chance that it is what to use)
sewing machine oil
hoppe's gun oil
mineral oil
For that matter, if all the rotating parts seem to spin freely, should I leave the bearings alone and add no oil at all?
More from Joel at the TT Factory:
Hi..
I saw your post, and the argumewnts. Like everything else in REAL life, there is no such thing as "one size fits all" One really can't generalize the whole turntable lube issue. My answer was geared more towards what I do most of.. and probably what you guys on the forum like least.. record changers/stacking turntables. In such cases, 99% of the time, the platter bearings will get either 3-in-1 or grease. One thing none of my machine see? WD-40.. You'd be amazed at how many units I see that come in here dripping with that "stuff"!
Joel
FWIW, I clean the grunge from my bicycle chain with WD-40, which is primarily kerosene and a great cleaner on surfaces/materials that are not harmed by it (stainless or carbon-steel chain). Then I dry thoroughly (because it is so volatile it evaporates pretty quickly with a hair dryer - stand back, though, it will flame if too hot). Then I soak in oil overnight and remove all of the excess prior to reinstalling on the bike. This is the same procedure that NoTransistors uses on Dual TT bearings, BTW. WD-40 is only good for cleaning. Not lubricating in the longer-term.
Hi..
I saw your post, and the argumewnts. Like everything else in REAL life, there is no such thing as "one size fits all" One really can't generalize the whole turntable lube issue. My answer was geared more towards what I do most of.. and probably what you guys on the forum like least.. record changers/stacking turntables. In such cases, 99% of the time, the platter bearings will get either 3-in-1 or grease. One thing none of my machine see? WD-40.. You'd be amazed at how many units I see that come in here dripping with that "stuff"!
Joel
FWIW, I clean the grunge from my bicycle chain with WD-40, which is primarily kerosene and a great cleaner on surfaces/materials that are not harmed by it (stainless or carbon-steel chain). Then I dry thoroughly (because it is so volatile it evaporates pretty quickly with a hair dryer - stand back, though, it will flame if too hot). Then I soak in oil overnight and remove all of the excess prior to reinstalling on the bike. This is the same procedure that NoTransistors uses on Dual TT bearings, BTW. WD-40 is only good for cleaning. Not lubricating in the longer-term.
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outlawmws
On the Run
Joel, thanks for taking time to respond. I have a couple of thoughts, based on what you have said, (very good points all around BTW) and would like your input on them.
Keeping your comments in mind:
Oil voilitility - Sorry can't think of a better term. What I mean is for non-metalic bearing surfaces, some oils may attack the various plastic materials used in a bearing, or on parts adjacent to a bearing.
3 in one vs gun oil - I believe 3 in one is hygroscopic, and gun oils are not. Wouldn't keeping moisture out of the oil be better? corrosion...
Oil weight - With car engines the weight of oil is planned to have it have a certion viscosity and resistance to sheer, at various operarting temperatures, so as to prevent metal to metal contact. There would always be a film of oil between.
With TT's there isn't such severe duty. All you have to worry about is having sufficient viscosity to keep the oil from draining off completely. After that, bearing clearances come into play, tight tolerances may need thinner oil, looser tolerances might need a heavier oil.
Greases - I'd be a bit leary of using any ordinary automotive axle grease. It has a terrible habit of cakeing up just from sitting, which is what we see consistantly in old mechanizims. I have some old cans of grease in my garage collection that is no longer useable, even though it is still "new in can". Its turned from a creamy state to a waxy caked state.
The newer synthetic greases like mobil 1 may be a better choice. M1 was designed for the navy's fighter landing gear and has great specifications. (for automotive use) The downside is that it costs 5-10X what ordinary axle grease. That being said, at around $10 a tube, it's all I use (or reccomend) on my vehicles now, as I mostly work on 4x4's and expect them to see use an ordinary street car won't. (creek crossings etc.) If you can buy it for garage use, certainly the tiny ammout needed for a TT won't be missed.
Re: your comments on WD40, :thmbsp: I'm surprized that no one, (Like maybe me... :stupid had mentioned it and it's issues. Your suggested uses are right on. use it to clean, and then get it the heck out of there and a proper lube in. BTW for you gun owners, Since another property of WD40 is to remove rust, and gun blueing is a form of rust, keep WD40 off you guns!
Keeping your comments in mind:
Oil voilitility - Sorry can't think of a better term. What I mean is for non-metalic bearing surfaces, some oils may attack the various plastic materials used in a bearing, or on parts adjacent to a bearing.
3 in one vs gun oil - I believe 3 in one is hygroscopic, and gun oils are not. Wouldn't keeping moisture out of the oil be better? corrosion...
Oil weight - With car engines the weight of oil is planned to have it have a certion viscosity and resistance to sheer, at various operarting temperatures, so as to prevent metal to metal contact. There would always be a film of oil between.
With TT's there isn't such severe duty. All you have to worry about is having sufficient viscosity to keep the oil from draining off completely. After that, bearing clearances come into play, tight tolerances may need thinner oil, looser tolerances might need a heavier oil.
Greases - I'd be a bit leary of using any ordinary automotive axle grease. It has a terrible habit of cakeing up just from sitting, which is what we see consistantly in old mechanizims. I have some old cans of grease in my garage collection that is no longer useable, even though it is still "new in can". Its turned from a creamy state to a waxy caked state.
The newer synthetic greases like mobil 1 may be a better choice. M1 was designed for the navy's fighter landing gear and has great specifications. (for automotive use) The downside is that it costs 5-10X what ordinary axle grease. That being said, at around $10 a tube, it's all I use (or reccomend) on my vehicles now, as I mostly work on 4x4's and expect them to see use an ordinary street car won't. (creek crossings etc.) If you can buy it for garage use, certainly the tiny ammout needed for a TT won't be missed.
Re: your comments on WD40, :thmbsp: I'm surprized that no one, (Like maybe me... :stupid
had mentioned it and it's issues. Your suggested uses are right on. use it to clean, and then get it the heck out of there and a proper lube in. BTW for you gun owners, Since another property of WD40 is to remove rust, and gun blueing is a form of rust, keep WD40 off you guns!
GibsonLesPaul
Well-Known Member
I just looked over the owners manual for my vintage Pioneer PL-100
turntable and it states, " lubrication of the motor shaft and tone arm
bearings is not neccessary." It still runs fine with the occassional belt
change so I decided to wipe the oil from my dipstick on my pantleg
instead of my TT bearing.
turntable and it states, " lubrication of the motor shaft and tone arm
bearings is not neccessary." It still runs fine with the occassional belt
change so I decided to wipe the oil from my dipstick on my pantleg
instead of my TT bearing.
Did the same with my vintage Yamaha YP-D71 TT. Except I have the service manual. It is like Joel (TT Factory) stated in his response. Isn't even mentioned. Nada.
Andyman said:
He was just making a point, not necessarily to promote recycling the car's oil just that you probably have all the stuff to lubricate your equipment in the house/garage or at the grocery store.
And I suspect a little facetious
: 
so now that we know the difference can we get back to the OPs topic, which was answered by Grumpy, I believe?Later, folks :thmbsp:
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I got the best idea yet!
:beer: :withstpd: :drunk: :nutz:
Hot wings, y'all?
:beer: :withstpd: :drunk: :nutz:
Hot wings, y'all?
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
I have just completed a Dual 1219 rebuild for one of our members. As usual, I have used Castrol 10W40 on the motor bushings, and the same on the platter bearing. The darn thing was made in 1972, and is way quieter than the factory specs would suggest. One wierd thing about it, though: This is a Euro-conversion unit, and seems to be several db quieter than the American-market units, that supposedly have the same damn motor. Can some other Dual geek chime in here? My pristine 1229Q isn't as quiet, yet is in perfect shape, and is 2db quieter on paper.I have repaired many of these things, and the ones made for the Euro market are always quieter.
Were they screwing us Americans?
Were they screwing us Americans?
Agree--No used oil!!!
No used oil here! I use 30 weight on my Duals..Nice and quiet motors too! A quart is soooo cheap
Goes a long way too
Eric
outlawmws said:
No used oil here! I use 30 weight on my Duals..Nice and quiet motors too! A quart is soooo cheap
Goes a long way too Eric
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
Hey Eric,
Read my above posting and attempt an answer. You are that other Dual geek.
Read my above posting and attempt an answer. You are that other Dual geek.
If you must use motor oil, I definitely agree with EW with synthetics, I've used them for years now in my cars, I can pull the valve cover off and they are as clean as the day they rolled off the assembly line. Conventional oils are still mineral based and contain many things that can add deposits, etc. Although were not talking anything that can spin 6000 rpm either, but I would still much prefer any synthetic over conventional oil. Man made oils can be tailor made to handle much higher pressures, flow better when cold and not get thick when hot.
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
My Pontiac Firebird has 100,000 miles. I installed valve cover gaskets to replace the rubber sealant from the factory. The innards were so clean, that you could eat off them. The engine has never been fed anything more expensive than Valvoline or Castrol standard oils.
Turntable motors have no rings, no combustion, no blow-by. Cheap oil works fine. Who needs to worry that some exotic additive in the fancy oil will clog the porous motor bushings on a precious turntable? The factory used plain oil, and we have no right to second-guess.
Turntable motors have no rings, no combustion, no blow-by. Cheap oil works fine. Who needs to worry that some exotic additive in the fancy oil will clog the porous motor bushings on a precious turntable? The factory used plain oil, and we have no right to second-guess.
Hopefully, no one is putting oil on the brushes. Doesn't make for a very good electrical conduction path.
heathkit tv said:
This is just wrong. Most turntables do NOT use oilite bearings. Maybe some cheap junk ones but not anything with a decent bearing design. Finely polished bearing surfaces with a high film strength oil WILL run completely on the oil film and the bearing surfaces will not touch except perhaps at the ball or point thrust surface if one exists. (else why do I take apart 25 year old TT's and find no wear and only clean oil on the bearing) Just because it doesn't run at high speed doesn't mean it can use any lube any more than the low speed engine in your lawnmower can run on Canola oil. The bearing designer designed the bearing to meet it's spec's with a certain type of oil. Using something drastically different may not ruin your TT but it can definitely affects its performance. I guarantee that if you replace the oil most bearings with some thin low strength oil your rumble level will increase. If you get metal to metal contact on the radial bearing surfaces on my TT's they will wear the bearings out.
Have not serviced any Euro Duals
This is an interesting observation. Euro Duals are quieter than US models. :worried: I will watch for this. All my Duals are US distributed. Did get my 1009F from a Canadean Ebayer a few years back with a United Audio base. Pretty quiet. Lubed it with 30 weight motor oil last year and its still quiet. Ran all night last month. The LP did not trip the auto return and it ran all night :cry: I was not happy. Still quiet and it did not lock up the motor My 1229 had a sticky shut off five years ago and the motor locked up :thumbsdn: Been fine since. Thought I was going to loose the motor. It does need to be lubricated soon.
Still no used motor oil used here!!! Just clean 30 weight. Maybe they do things different out west? Hmmmm? Use what works and as Joel says "less is more" when it comes to grease...
Eric
NoTransistors said:
This is an interesting observation. Euro Duals are quieter than US models. :worried: I will watch for this. All my Duals are US distributed. Did get my 1009F from a Canadean Ebayer a few years back with a United Audio base. Pretty quiet. Lubed it with 30 weight motor oil last year and its still quiet. Ran all night last month. The LP did not trip the auto return and it ran all night :cry: I was not happy. Still quiet and it did not lock up the motor
My 1229 had a sticky shut off five years ago and the motor locked up :thumbsdn: Been fine since. Thought I was going to loose the motor. It does need to be lubricated soon. Still no used motor oil used here!!! Just clean 30 weight. Maybe they do things different out west? Hmmmm? Use what works and as Joel says "less is more" when it comes to grease...
Eric