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Ben Harper bass notes hard on my speakers.

dogwan said:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...-cd-player-on-the-cheap-denon-dcd-910.879322/

I agree, those old PCM56 chips are really good. I'm one of those freaks of nature that can hear a difference between R2R and Delta Sigma dacs with some consistency.
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I'm looking at adding a DAC soon. I have a couple 300 disc sony Cdp-Cx355s I'm using at the moment with decent results but I want to run them optical out to a Dac instead of using the sonys internal dacs. The two players are hooked up to my V555ES receiver with a two way remote which stores all the titles for the discs on the remote for easy access. I guess you can call it's a 1990s way of having a music server. Until I can get a dedicated computer, the time to load all the files and a decent DAC it will have to suffice. Thanks for the link.
 
Sub Sonics? Been meaning to try those ... ;-}

SONIC_Footlong_Philly_webready.jpg


Not to confuse sub-sonics with sub-harmonics though. The stuff you can't hear is where the meat of true bass resides, and yes, you can cut da boom by cutting those, but the filters can also cut out that room shaking big bottom representative of a live performance. My speakers sweep test to 14db, and I try to use every last bit of it with the help of a dbx bass synthesizer that adds a full octave to whatever it finds in the material.

Also might be some "hard-scaping" in your future if you want to do it right. I had a killer peak at around 160hz that could kill due to reflected bass. Turntable was especially noticeable - needle picks up bass from vinyl, bass comes out of speakers and hits the backwall, bass bounces back to the stylus which picks that up and layers it on the new bass coming from the material, and the loop will keep going boing until either something blows up or you die. Got rid of most of that by padding the front wall with insulated curtains.

system-sep14.jpg
 
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SleeperSupra said:
It's probably the amplifier is losing control of the woofer.
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In all my years in audio, I have never heard anything like that......could you expound on it please?

A woofers suspension, and T/S parameters dictate the woofers movement and control, along with the enclosure box tuning frequency.
 
DavidZak said:
Hi all, My system hits low notes without any strain and sounds quite good. Luxman R-113 pre amp with a NEC A-910 amp pushing a set of DCM TF-600s. The CD Burn to Shine by Ben Harper really taxes my speakers to the point of rattle/Fart when I turn it up slightly and play the first two songs on the Album. Alone and The Woman in You. Anyone else have certain tracks that their system doesn't quite handle or familiar with these songs played on your own system? I just can't duplicate this flaw with any other tracks that I have listened to.Thanks for listening!
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Yes

Massive Attack - Angel

The opening of the song caused all speakers I ever owned to bottom out. Never had a set where the woofers could handle the excursion and low bass of that song.
 
If you look at the source it looks as if someone gave the music
some "wonky" treatment. Left and right channels have extremely
unlinear dynamics and are the opposite of each other. The "Histogram"
should be like an inverted V with straight(ish) sides. The
"Peak vs RMS" usually is an even distribution along the diagonal.
I would not use this track to make any kind of assessment of
amplifier or speakers, it's too weird.

01 - Alone.gif
 
Sgt.Pepsi said:
Yes

Massive Attack - Angel

The opening of the song caused all speakers I ever owned to bottom out. Never had a set where the woofers could handle the excursion and low bass of that song.
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I just tried that song with no issues , no bottoming out whatsoever.

Audiofreak71
 
kevintomb said:
In all my years in audio, I have never heard anything like that......could you expound on it please?

A woofers suspension, and T/S parameters dictate the woofers movement and control, along with the enclosure box tuning frequency.
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Agree. Its not the amplifier losing control. Its the drivers bottoming out.
 
Stepwise said:
If you look at the source it looks as if someone gave the music
some "wonky" treatment. Left and right channels have extremely
unlinear dynamics and are the opposite of each other. The "Histogram"
should be like an inverted V with straight(ish) sides. The
"Peak vs RMS" usually is an even distribution along the diagonal.
I would not use this track to make any kind of assessment of
amplifier or speakers, it's too weird.

View attachment 2007902
Click to expand...
Which song are the graphs of,?
 
Sgt.Pepsi said:
Yes

Massive Attack - Angel

The opening of the song caused all speakers I ever owned to bottom out. Never had a set where the woofers could handle the excursion and low bass of that song.
Click to expand...
Ah, memories!
YES!

I first heard that song on a stereo system by a guy who overdoes everything, especially the bass. He had two or three Pro audio bass bins in his living room, I forget what they had, maybe dual 15" in each? anyway, angel was a tactile phenomenon.

My JL audio fathom handles that track at obscene volume levels just fine. However, I can relatively easily overdrive my M&K dual 12" sub on that track.

Also, I Highly recommend 'napalm for breakfast', AFTER 2:19, that's where the real low bass is. Warning, will blow inferior setups woofers.
On most systems, you won't hear anything much after 2:19. On the right system, you'll experience true bass.

Rhythm Devils play River Music; the Apocalypse Now sessions.
51T-ZFM11bL._AC_UL474_SR474,450_.jpg
 
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The TF 600s are power hungry with a wacky impedence curve and useless below 40 hz in practice. Mine were badly behaved with a 100wpc amp, so I upgraded to a 300wpc amp which improved things. I also have the TF's rolling off at 50hz with an electric crossover. This made the biggest improvement, so the subwoofers take over the heavy lifting at 50hz on down.

The TF's are for delicate detailed listening. The tweeters are easy to cook and its not possible to move the ocean with a couple of 6 inch drivers per side.
 
jazzmans said:
Ah, memories!
YES!

I first heard that song on a stereo system by a guy who overdoes everything, especially the bass. He had two or three Pro audio bass bins in his living room, I forget what they had, maybe dual 15" in each? anyway, angel was a tactile phenomenon.

My JL audio fathom handles that track at obscene volume levels just fine. However, I can relatively easily overdrive my M&K dual 12" sub on that track.

Also, I Highly recommend 'napalm for breakfast', AFTER 2:19, that's where the real low bass is. Warning, will blow inferior setups woofers.
On most systems, you won't hear anything much after 2:19. On the right system, you'll experience true bass.
Click to expand...


Who does the Nampalm song song you mention?
 
Gazdatronik said:
The TF 600s are power hungry with a wacky impedence curve and useless below 40 hz in practice. Mine were badly behaved with a 100wpc amp, so I upgraded to a 300wpc amp which improved things. I also have the TF's rolling off at 50hz with an electric crossover. This made the biggest improvement, so the subwoofers take over the heavy lifting at 50hz on down.

The TF's are for delicate detailed listening. The tweeters are easy to cook and its not possible to move the ocean with a couple of 6 inch drivers per side.
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I used to run them with a Sub with 50 hz crossover also. A solid 100 wpc was plenty enough to make them sound loud and wonderful. I have no issues with them at all with the sub. I moved into a smaller room and feel like they didn't need a sub at all until Ben Harper came along. I keep extra tweeters on hand. The Subsonic filter seems to work just right to keep them from Farting.. Plenty of clean Bass pumping out of them. No sub needed. The NEC A-910 has the goods to do the job and then some.
 
DavidZak said:
I used to run them with a Sub with 50 hz crossover also. A solid 100 wpc was plenty enough to make them sound loud and wonderful. I have no issues with them at all with the sub. I moved into a smaller room and feel like they didn't need a sub at all until Ben Harper came along. I keep extra tweeters on hand. The Subsonic filter seems to work just right to keep them from Farting.. Plenty of clean Bass pumping out of them. No sub needed. The NEC A-910 has the goods to do the job and then some.
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The subsonic filter sounds like a decent workaround for your situation but what about the below 30-40hz content(or wherever the 910 begins the lo cut) that is essentially lost?
E string on a bass is 42hz, bottom note on a piano is 27 hz.
Of course I can't claim I don't need a sub, I probably listen to a lot more pipe organ music than most people but eh what can you do right?
 
Gazdatronik said:
The subsonic filter sounds like a decent workaround for your situation but what about the below 30-40hz content(or wherever the 910 begins the lo cut) that is essentially lost?
E string on a bass is 42hz, bottom note on a piano is 27 hz.
Of course I can't claim I don't need a sub, I probably listen to a lot more pipe organ music than most people but eh what can you do right?
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From my understanding it's a slope not a cutoff. I'm using the filter on the Luxman. I hear no recognizable difference except for no farting. Bass and piano low frequencies are loud and strong. I have a spectrum analyzer in line and can visually see the low frequencies being fed to the amplifier. 18 hz is the cutoff the rest are sloped. But then again I don't listen to alot of pipe organ. Seems to work for me. Thanks for the input!
 
From Wiki:

"Another trade-off (of Bass Reflex) for this augmentation is that, at frequencies below "tuning", the port unloads the cone and allows it to move much as if the speaker were not in an enclosure at all. This means the speaker can be driven past safe mechanical limits at frequencies below the tuning frequency with much less power than in an equivalently-sized sealed enclosure. For this reason, high-powered systems using a bass reflex design are often protected by a high-pass filter that removes signals below a certain frequency. Unfortunately, electrical filtering adds further frequency-dependent group delay. Even if such filtering can be adjusted not to remove musical content, it may interfere with sonic information connected with the size and ambiance of the recording venue, information which often exists in the low bass spectrum."
 
From the R-113 manual..its 18Hz turnover. On the R-117 its 15Hz. My system with the HSU sub has no problem passing along the feel of the bass with the subsonic on. I can tell no difference if its on or not unless I'm watching the woofers at certain times.

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LHorn said:
From the R-113 manual..its 18Hz turnover. On the R-117 its 15Hz. My system with the HSU sub has no problem passing along the feel of the bass with the subsonic on. I can tell no difference if its on or not unless I'm watching the woofers at certain times.

View attachment 2008944
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I have another decent set of bookshelf speakers hooked up with a subwoofer on channel B. They're are Sony SS-Ha1's. I have independent presets programmed into the eq for each set. They are very sterile as for the DCMs seem to be a little more musically forgiving. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Overall I'm pretty darn happy with my mid-fi system. Is the R-117 all it's cracked up to be?
 
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