Best Cartridges for Indie/Punk Rock

[wisnowski1]

So i bought a Pro-ject Debut III with the ortofon 5e cart about 4 years ago (I'm 29 now). Before you say it, i know, not the greatest TT. I didn't know much back then. since then I've been getting into the vintage gear but old TT's in my area are hard to come by.

A majority of my vinyl is classic rock and I don't think it sounds half bad with that turntable and cart. The other part of my vinyl collection is newer (mid 90's-today) ska/punk rock/indie rock. Bands like the Menzingers, Lawrence Arms, Brand New, Get Up Kids, Rancid, Strike Anywhere, streetlight manifesto.... if you're not familiar with any of these i would say a close comparison is maybe, Nirvana?

When playing those styles of music I'm completely disappointed with what i hear. I'm not an expert at describing what i hear but it just sounds like there isn't much separation between the vocals and the rest of the music. it all kind of muddles together.

Does anyone have experience with these styles of music and can recommend a good cartridge i could upgrade to? I don't wanna break the bank. Especially on a cartridge to put on a TT I'm probably not gonna have around within the next couple years.

 

[Montycat]

Maybe try a Grado? The Prestige Black might have the sound you like and won't break the bank. It can also be upgraded with better styli at a later date.

I'm listening to one right now playing some Talking Heads on an AR turntable through a Marantz 2010 and Paradigm Atoms and it's sounding pretty good. Next up, Butthole Surfers. I can turn it up a bit for you...

 

[Bob_in_OKC]

The aspects that disappoint you in the sound probably aren't the turntable. I upgraded a Debut III from the OM5E to a Dynavector 10x4 and the difference was very nice. It's a bit of a lofty cartridge for such an entry-level turntable, but it proved to my ears the Debut turntable is just fine.

By the way...I think a Grado will hum on the Debut, because of the motor under the platter.

 

[Montycat]

By the way...I think a Grado will hum on the Debut, because of the motor under the platter.

Good point. Never had the opportunity to try it of course.

 

[wisnowski1]

Maybe try a Grado? The Prestige Black might have the sound you like and won't break the bank. It can also be upgraded with better styli at a later date.

I'm listening to one right now playing some Talking Heads on an AR turntable through a Marantz 2010 and Paradigm Atoms and it's sounding pretty good. Next up, Butthole Surfers. I can turn it up a bit for you...

i did a little research on the grado. I like some of the reviews i read reporting a superb mid-range.

I'm just starting to tinker with all these different components. My setup up includes pioneer sx-6000 receiver, polk 45b monitor bookshelf, polk sub, and debut TT. Its a budget system. This week I'm refinishing cabs, recapping, and replacing tweeters on a pair of marantz imperial 6 speakers but those will be in my bedroom setup where my drunk buddies won't abuse them.

I feel like the pioneer is a bass heavy receiver along with the sub so i shouldn't really be concerned about a cartridge that also puts out heavy bass... maybe I'm wrong there. I'm interested in the grado now just for the midrange but worried of reviewers reporting negative highs performance. Before all this I was leaning towards Ortofon 2M Red.

 

[wisnowski1]

The aspects that disappoint you in the sound probably aren't the turntable. I upgraded a Debut III from the OM5E to a Dynavector 10x4 and the difference was very nice. It's a bit of a lofty cartridge for such an entry-level turntable, but it proved to my ears the Debut turntable is just fine.

By the way...I think a Grado will hum on the Debut, because of the motor under the platter.

I looked up the Dynavector... way more then I'm willing to pay at this point but it's still nice to dream.

Did your debut have a noisy motor problem ? I honestly can't tell on mine. I realize its probably something only the needle picks up though.

 

[E.Man]

Ortofon stylus '5' is very entry level. Just change the Ortofon stylus to a stylus '20'. (or at least a 10 if stuck for cash).

 

[liko]

So i bought a Pro-ject Debut III with the ortofon 5e cart about 4 years ago (I'm 29 now). Before you say it, i know, not the greatest TT. I didn't know much back then. since then I've been getting into the vintage gear but old TT's in my area are hard to come by.

A majority of my vinyl is classic rock and I don't think it sounds half bad with that turntable and cart. The other part of my vinyl collection is newer (mid 90's-today) ska/punk rock/indie rock. Bands like the Menzingers, Lawrence Arms, Brand New, Get Up Kids, Rancid, Strike Anywhere, streetlight manifesto.... if you're not familiar with any of these i would say a close comparison is maybe, Nirvana?

When playing those styles of music I'm completely disappointed with what i hear. I'm not an expert at describing what i hear but it just sounds like there isn't much separation between the vocals and the rest of the music. it all kind of muddles together.

Does anyone have experience with these styles of music and can recommend a good cartridge i could upgrade to? I don't wanna break the bank. Especially on a cartridge to put on a TT I'm probably not gonna have around within the next couple years.

Hi,That is my genre,being a Gen X'er i love it.

I use a AT440 MLa and I'm happy with it BUT i know others dont- people either like them or hate them!.If your playing older vinyl that not produced alot,it really does show up problems but i wouldn't be surprised if other dont.If you dont like HF's than its not for you.If its not for you the Ortofon Red and the DENON 103 will go well too.I have friends into the same music they own Ortofons reds and Denons (i think its a 103?),which are good cause they're only around $100(i think the Denons are over $200?).A AT440 MLa you're looking at anywhere from $180-$280.I will never spend more than that for a cart.Alot of people have regretted buying 440's and then spend alot of money trying to tame the HF's,so listen ALOT! is all i can say.I personally like the 440 better than the more expensive Ortofons.But that just comes down to taste.How much do you want to spend?Have you heard the Ortofon Reds?($100)You really need to ditch that ort 5 if you want some better tunes.

Here is a video i posted on YT,playing a Nirvana LP.Have a listen.Make sure you put it on HD.
I personally love this cart,i love cymbals and high hat's etc.I mainly listen to punk,indie,hard rock.But i also listen to classical(sountrack etc). I'm in the middle of making a audition vid for the AT 440MLa because there isn't one playing the music we like.Its covers Nirvana,ACDC,Sonic Youth,Mudhoney,Alice In Chains(90's bands)etc.I got my AT 440 MLa for $180 on Ebay(if your buying on ebay make sure they're a legit supplier)

What phono pre amp are you using?I only use a cheap CA 540P.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajVwqgwVHu0&list=PLah6P3UhKQYujOLndX3_OULFKg0BklqRt&index=2

 

[Bob_in_OKC]

I looked up the Dynavector... way more then I'm willing to pay at this point but it's still nice to dream.

Did your debut have a noisy motor problem ? I honestly can't tell on mine. I realize its probably something only the needle picks up though.

Mine doesn't have the noisy motor problem. The Dynavector is indeed a bit much for a Debut. I had the cartridge on hand after an upgrade on another turntable.

A Grado will pick up electrical interference from the motor, even without a noisy one. It is somewhat likely that the Grado will have an audible hum.

 

[gadget73]

Just a mention, but are you sure its not just the recording? Some things are recorded or mixed in such a way that it sounds kind of "dense" for lack of a better word.

 

[beatcomber]

If you don't want a laid-back sound (which is sounds like you don't), Grados might not be your thing.

You might prefer the more forward Audio Technica sound, which is usually hot in the upper frequencies, giving the music some additional razzle dazzle. Another option is the Denon DL-110, which is also a forward-sounding cartridge, known for its wide imaging and open character.

 

[GPJeff]

Agreed with Gadget73 above.

I have a bunch of 70's- 80's punk LP's. Most of the stuff that was recorded from the time period was done on what I would suppose sub-par equipment. Most of the big name bands that more people are aware of like Black Flag and Dead Kennedys were only known to teenage punks and skateboarders and up to about the 21-24 old alternative crowd. So what I'm trying to get across, most of the recordings were not made with the same equpment, engineers, & producers that say Micheal Jackson had when he made Thriller at the same time period. Some recordings were made in the band's garage since they did not have the budgets to afford much more than food, beer, and drugs. I'm not sure how much has changed now a days, the technogolical advanced equipment is cheaper, but you still need experienced warm bodies to control the computers.

Besides my SAE1000lt, the AT440MLa is my favorite cart for rock, dance, electronic, and punk. It's good on the low and high ends.

 

[gusten]

So i bought a Pro-ject Debut III with the ortofon 5e cart about 4 years ago (I'm 29 now). Before you say it, i know, not the greatest TT. I didn't know much back then. since then I've been getting into the vintage gear but old TT's in my area are hard to come by.

A majority of my vinyl is classic rock and I don't think it sounds half bad with that turntable and cart. The other part of my vinyl collection is newer (mid 90's-today) ska/punk rock/indie rock. Bands like the Menzingers, Lawrence Arms, Brand New, Get Up Kids, Rancid, Strike Anywhere, streetlight manifesto.... if you're not familiar with any of these i would say a close comparison is maybe, Nirvana?

When playing those styles of music I'm completely disappointed with what i hear. I'm not an expert at describing what i hear but it just sounds like there isn't much separation between the vocals and the rest of the music. it all kind of muddles together.

Does anyone have experience with these styles of music and can recommend a good cartridge i could upgrade to? I don't wanna break the bank. Especially on a cartridge to put on a TT I'm probably not gonna have around within the next couple years.

IMHO if the cartridge is good it´s good for all types of music, I have never heard it in another way. And there are plenty of good cartridges that are good with every type of music.

 

[aopisa]

Also, I think the AT 120e might work for your needs. Lots of good reviews. I mostly listen to all types of rock new and old and some early punk. I am very pleased with this cartridge. The body also accepts a number of stylus upgrades.

As an aside, I have an original pressing of the Psychedelic Furs debut album before all the Pretty in Pink stuff. It's a great album musically, but I agree with GPjeff, the recording and mixing are terrible.

 

[bangsezmax]

Agreed with Gadget73 above.

I have a bunch of 70's- 80's punk LP's. Most of the stuff that was recorded from the time period was done on what I would suppose sub-par equipment. Most of the big name bands that more people are aware off like Black Flag and Dead Kennedys were only known to teenage punks and skateboarders and up to about at 21-24 old alternative crowd. So what I'm trying to get across, most of the recordings were not made with the same equpment, engineers, & producers that say Micheal Jackson had when he made Thriller at the same time period. Some recordings were made in the band's garage since they did not have the budgets to afford much more than food, beer, and drugs. I'm not sure how much has changed now a days, but the technogolical advanced equipment is cheaper, but you still need experienced warm bodies to control the computers.

:yes:

The reasons for what you're describing . . .

it just sounds like there isn't much separation between the vocals and the rest of the music. it all kind of muddles together.

are most likely the mixes and the mastering, not the cartridge.

You can listen to a well-recorded and well-mastered recording of similar styles -- I'll throw out the Minutemen's Double Nickels on the Dime and Green Day's American Idiot -- and they will sound great with just about any cartridge. Or you can take a musically aggressive record that was mixed abysmally -- I'll choose REM's Accelerate (turned into mush by Jacknife Lee) and there's really nothing you can do to improve the sound.

It's not the cartridge, it's the recording. The clearer the playback, the more you can tell it just sounds bad.

 

[JumpingBean]

A Denon DL-110 might be good for that type of music.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Shure M35x. Which will handle the often poorly pressed Punk records and does a nice job with Indie too. College stations love it, why not you?

 

[wisnowski1]

:yes:

The reasons for what you're describing . . .are most likely the mixes and the mastering, not the cartridge.

You can listen to a well-recorded and well-mastered recording of similar styles -- I'll throw out the Minutemen's Double Nickels on the Dime and Green Day's American Idiot -- and they will sound great with just about any cartridge. Or you can take a musically aggressive record that was mixed abysmally -- I'll choose REM's Accelerate (turned into mush by Jacknife Lee) and there's really nothing you can do to improve the sound.

It's not the cartridge, it's the recording. The clearer the playback, the more you can tell it just sounds bad.

so the overall consensus is that the problem lays in the vinyl... that's depressing. like being diagnosed with terminal illness, nothing can be done really.

but thanks everyone for the cartridge recommendations. i do still want to upgrade the cart. I'm due for a change.

 

[bangsezmax]

so the overall consensus is that the problem lays in the vinyl... that's depressing. like being diagnosed with terminal illness, nothing can be done really.

but thanks everyone for the cartridge recommendations. i do still want to upgrade the cart. I'm due for a change.

Not the vinyl necessarily. It might be the recording itself. Do these recordings sound noticeably better on CD?

 

[Johnny B]

Quality of recording/mixing/mastering varies wildly with punk rock of all eras. I agree that the Minutemen stuff sounds good, but that was mostly Ethan Johns. The Spot engineering Black Flag and Hüsker Dü stuff sounds pretty terrible whether vinyl or CD, or what equipment it's played on.

Obviously the newer stuff is generally recorded on better equipment than the older stuff, but some bands care more than others and some have more money than others. It's a total crapshoot.

In any case, I recently switched from a Stanton 500 to the Grado Black when I couldn't get the stylus for the Stanton anymore. My punk and metal LPs sound fine on the Grado. It's probably a plus that the high end's not hyped. That's the last thing you want on some of these albums. It does, however, hum on my table (JVC L-F210), so I'm looking at switching to one of the ATs.