Bi-amping question

[roarke]

I've got some oak ridge acoustics speakers from 1990. They have two sets of terminals for each speaker. I'm wondering if I need to modify any of the connections between the woofer and the crossover before using the bi-amp feature. Here's some pictures: https://photos.app.goo.gl/gb8dIuJAHhDVfzm32

There are two cables going to each terminal of the woofer.

Just being cautious, don't want something to pop when I plug them in! Thanks!

 

[Binkman]

Welcome to aK.
Best to post on speakers forum as these are fairly rare. post a pic of the speaker terminals on back of cab(s), too.

 

[Bob]

I think you mean bi-wire. each amp channel has two cables connected, the other end of each cable
is connected to one of the speaker terminals. think of the cables as being paralled - amp to speaker.

if you do bi-amping, you'll need a crossover and 4 amp channels. two amp channels will handle the
treble, the other two handle the bass. usually there are 4 speakers, two for the treble and two for
the bass.

for your speakers you cannot do this unless you have completely separate treble and bass signal
paths inside and no signal connection between the treble and the bass.

so to bi-wire, add another cable to each channel, string to the unused speaker terminals following the
first cable to the used speaker terminal. do not cross your amp channel cables - to summarize:
two cables from the left amp channel to the left speaker - repeat for the right.

 

[redk9258]

This post might interest you...
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....ustics-speakers-question.102204/#post-6397115

 

[Bob]

revising my post after reading the included links.

use the speakers as is with the best electronics you have. and if
you have time/energy update the crossovers. any time-aligned
speaker is a good thing.

then enjoy the music!

 

[roarke]

This post might interest you...
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....ustics-speakers-question.102204/#post-6397115

Yeah I've taken a read through it before. Sounds like I have the speakers that were at the show that could be bi-amped.

revising my post after reading the included links.

use the speakers as is with the best electronics you have. and if
you have time/energy update the crossovers. any time-aligned
speaker is a good thing.

then enjoy the music!

Yes, I definitely intend to use them and enjoy them. Actually I have been already I have amp's that would enable me to bi-amp these. Do you think I risk damaging them if I hook up both terminal sets? Also, how difficult is it to update the cross overs? I would think I'd have to match the crossovers to the drivers.

 

[Bob]

if its one amp per channel AND two cables per channel then no problem.
this is bi-wire is OK from speaker viewpoint

DO NOT use two different channels/amps to the same speaker. you will need an external
crossover AND de-couple the two drivers inside the one speaker from each other. this is
bi-amping.

preamp sends ONE signal to external crossover that splits this one signal into two-
one signal for the treble and one signal for the bass - times two for two channels.
this means two stereo amps, four output cables, and 4 speakers, two for treble
and two for bass.

or using (bad) analogies, two bosses talking to one worker at the same time
or two bosses telling two workers 1/2 the work.each.

if you hook up two amps (4 channels) to your two speakers with 4 cables,
wear protection around head, eyes, ears, hands, and family jewels. don't
forget dragon skin around the arterial systems and Kevlar for the neck.
take out 6-figure life insurance, proceeds to me.

there's a lot of sound quality to be had (WELL) before bi-amping/bi-wiring.

get the schematics for the speakers, compare to actual crossover then
order ugrade parts, save the boutique stuff for stage 2.

in order of better sound quality
research speaker conditioning. seal edges for stronger structure. research
better "stuffing". research the driver, crossover, and speaker specs -
f3, Q, etc. and test. research whether it's optimal. adjust
2. update crossover better quality parts. skip non-electrolytic caps,
measure resistors, and inductors.
3. upgrade binding posts and speaker cable. go with circular speaker
lugs to completely 100% eliminate forever, the possibility of shorting
your amp outputs and blowing those unobtanium transistors to kingdom come.
4.life speaker up off floor. decouple if possible, use sound absorbers. use
sound meter to measure standing waves and adjust the back-to-wall,
side-t-side, front-to-listener, inclusive angle to listener, etc.
5. do not miniwax - in 12-15 years on this and other audio sites there
has been no mention of this improving sound quality unless you go
to 4-star restaurants to look (but not eat) at the food. never know
about osmosis.
6. upgrade electronics, try tubes, then single-ended, etc
7. then look into bi-wire and/or bi-amp

 

[roarke]

Ok. I'll start researching this stuff. Out of curiosity...

If I were to bi-amp using my receiver, which has a zone 2 bi amp feature, and a built in bi-amp cross over. Then wouldn't it just be a matter of disconnecting the woofer from the speaker's internal crossover and connecting it directly to the woofer terminals?

 

[whoaru99]

Ok. I'll start researching this stuff. Out of curiosity...

If I were to bi-amp using my receiver, which has a zone 2 bi amp feature, and a built in bi-amp cross over. Then wouldn't it just be a matter of disconnecting the woofer from the speaker's internal crossover and connecting it directly to the woofer terminals?

I have yet to see a receiver that actually has a built in crossover for biamping. Most simply route the same full range signals to both amplifier outputs. But, if you are sure yours does I'd be interested to know the make and model.

Connecting those to the speaker won't hurt anything as long as you remove the jumper straps that are normally present on biwire/biamp capable speakers.

 

[Bob]

zone 2 bi-amp? is this like a 2nd set of speaker outputs that can be used as bi-amp - where are
the amps inside the receiver or outside? is there a zone 1 that's normal and is there a
bi-amp for that?

the only problem with disconnecting the woofer is that there needs to be a crossover
frequency adjustment.so the amp side knows which frequencies go where. and there
should be a volume control for both. otherwise one or the other is (too) louder.

I'd still go with everything before #7 - upgrading equipment and speaker components
provides the biggest bang.

lastly, bi-amping is best only for certain types of music. Classical and probably not 9 inch nails.

 

[whoaru99]

The signals go through the existing speaker crossover and it splits out the mid/high to the mid and tweeter, and the lows to the woofer, just as what happens with a single amp.

For some reason I'm having a deja vu moment. LOL.

 

[damacman]

I have yet to see a receiver that actually has a built in crossover for biamping. Most simply route the same full range signals to both amplifier outputs. But, if you are sure yours does I'd be interested to know the make and model.

Connecting those to the speaker won't hurt anything as long as you remove the jumper straps that are normally present on biwire/biamp capable speakers.

Some high end AVRs and AVPs offer this feature.

 

[whoaru99]

Some high end AVRs and AVPs offer this feature.

Yeah, I know the biamp, that's common...but not a crossover for that zone 2 biamp thing.

The closest I've seen to that is on my lowly Panasonic SA-XR55 where there is the ability to do time delay/distance offset between the two biamp amps, but they're still full range signals coming out of each.

 

[Bob]

OP didn't specify AVR. hence this "zone 2" feature needs explanation and further questions
as to whether it can substitute for an external crossover. then it can be inferred (or tested
for a real answer) whether it can be used in a somewhat "novel" approach by using only
two speakers and "hacking/re-engineering" the internals. this reduces the resale value.

Yes, yes, I know there are speakers that can be internally reconfigured to provide a dual
path in to provide two speaker access for external bi-amping.

Better solution: 1) do not hack these speakers, 2) buy a cheap pair of small speakers
(cheap because they're dumpster-qualified but on Craigslist and small because we're
not using these for JBL/9-inch-nails bass), and 3) use these cheapies on the top/treble
end of that AVR biamping and use the ORA speakers as the bottom/bass end.

originally (see historic data on the Dahlquist subwoofer) was to add warmth but nowadays
bass is to rattle glasses a mile away with the opening soundtrack from Top Gun. or
to impress folks with the Spaniard yelling "single file" in Gladiator.

IOW simpler ways to get to enjoying the music without reducing the value of your system.

 

[whoaru99]

Zone 2 biamp is pretty much exclusively a feature of AVR or AVR-like component.

What we really need is a better understanding of the existing wiring inside the speakers. The pictures supplied are not enough to understand what's going on in there.