• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Bi-amping speakers with sub out+amp?

H

himey

Active Member
Can I temporarily bi-amp a speaker with the outputs of a receiver to the highs, and use an amp with the sub output to the lows inputs of a bi-ampable speaker? The speakers are Infinity Kappa's 8.1. The receiver doesn't have pre outs and I am worried about the load on the Yamaha 671. I will be looking for a receiver with pre outs in the meantime. Thanks.
 
Register to hide this ad
The RX-V671? is rated for 4 ohm loads (Front L & R) by Yamaha so you should be fine with 8.1s.

Replies #3 and 4

Kappa 8.1 Thoughts and Amplification

I have for awhile wanting to move up in the Classic infinity line. I have the RS-4B's and just want something a little more. It may be me, but I don't like powered subwoofers for music. Love it with my home theater but I like the bass from the Infinites. Anyway, I am currently winning an auction...
audiokarma.org
 
opnly bafld said:
The RX-V671? is rated for 4 ohm loads (Front L & R) by Yamaha so you should be fine with 8.1s.

Replies #3 and 4

Kappa 8.1 Thoughts and Amplification

I have for awhile wanting to move up in the Classic infinity line. I have the RS-4B's and just want something a little more. It may be me, but I don't like powered subwoofers for music. Love it with my home theater but I like the bass from the Infinites. Anyway, I am currently winning an auction...
audiokarma.org
Click to expand...
The person I am buying the speakers from told me they are very hard to drive, but maybe they just meant to get them sounding their best. I will just be careful with the volume until I get them on my Conrad-Johnson. Thanks.
 
According to information on the link and other places the previous model was a much more difficult load.
IMO/E most speakers don't sound their best with AVRs.
 
If you are worried about your amp, be judicious with the volume control or even put a fan on it. You should be fine.

If concerned about getting the best sound, get a beefy amp.

I've tried mine with a Yamaha integrated, a Sansui integrated, an Aragon power amp, and a Crown power amp. They sounded best with the power amps.
 
stereofanboy said:
If you are worried about your amp, be judicious with the volume control or even put a fan on it. You should be fine.

If concerned about getting the best sound, get a beefy amp.

I've tried mine with a Yamaha integrated, a Sansui integrated, an Aragon power amp, and a Crown power amp. They sounded best with the power amps.
Click to expand...
I have a few Conrad Johnson amps but it is going to temporarily reside at my parents house, and their receiver doesn't have pre outs. If I can find a cheap receiver with pre outs, I will bring over a Conrad.
 
opnly bafld said:
According to information on the link and other places the previous model was a much more difficult load.
IMO/E most speakers don't sound their best with AVRs.
Click to expand...
I rarely listen to music where these speakers are temporarily going to reside, just some movies. The speakers here now have no bass. It is a 5.0 setup. I was going to get a sub, but for $300, I am going to go another direction. Eventually the Kappa's will go back to my place.
 
I drove my Kappa 8.1s for several years with a mid-range Denon AVR (3803, IIRC). It worked well. They're not a difficult load.
 
swechsler said:
I drove my Kappa 8.1s for several years with a mid-range Denon AVR (3803, IIRC). It worked well. They're not a difficult load.
Click to expand...
These seem like an awful lot of speaker for $300. The seller is only 3 miles away and he is going to help me load and unload them. I am excited.
 
For starters you would need to balance the levels between the AVR and amplifier, but that is still not bi-amping, which requires the use of active crossovers.
 
F1nut said:
For starters you would need to balance the levels between the AVR and amplifier, but that is still not bi-amping, which requires the use of active crossovers.
Click to expand...
Did you read any of the other posts in this thread? Passive bi-amp is a thing. I should be fine with the front channels. I will just be careful until I add my amp eventually.
 
himey said:
Can I temporarily bi-amp a speaker with the outputs of a receiver to the highs, and use an amp with the sub output to the lows inputs of a bi-ampable speaker? The speakers are Infinity Kappa's 8.1. The receiver doesn't have pre outs and I am worried about the load on the Yamaha 671. I will be looking for a receiver with pre outs in the meantime. Thanks.
Click to expand...
how are you going to get the source signal to the amp driving the lows?
Or are you saying your receiver has a sub out?
 
F1nut said:
For starters you would need to balance the levels between the AVR and amplifier, but that is still not bi-amping, which requires the use of active crossovers.
Click to expand...

Active bi-amping is one method of bi-amping. It's still bi-amping even using passive crossovers. Active and passive, horizontal or vertical, solid state or tube, or a hybrid of variations, all have advantages and disadvantages, but it's still bi-amping if the task of driving the speakers is shared by additional amp channels. There are so many ways to bi-amp successfully, it's not a situation of all or nothing. I encourage more people to step up and give some basic form of bi-amping a try. Adding an active subwoofer is bi-amping 101. It can lead to very easy and inexpensive improvements, or may turn out sounding the same to you, but every situation is unique, and every result will be different. Give it a fair shake and see. You can always get into more complex configurations, add another amp, some form of active crossover, or try other variations down the road, but don't let thinking you have to go with the full monty to get started stop you (or anyone) from trying.
 
Last edited:
I got the Kappa 8.1's, connected them to the front outputs only (with jumpers), and they sound amazing. The guy who sold them to me couldn't believe how great they sounded. He had them connected to a McIntosh amp, but his room was less than half the size, and he said they sound better in my room with the Yamaha, cheap center channel, and tiny rears. That was after I gave him the money listening to Fallout episode number 1. The speakers are mint with two new Simply Speakers domes. Everything thing else is original. I can't believe I got these for $300. He dropped the price after a couple weeks from $400 to $300 yesterday. Glad I jumped on them. The bass is so clean.
 
Last edited:
Rick Owen said:
how are you going to get the source signal to the amp driving the lows?
Or are you saying your receiver has a sub out?
Click to expand...
The Yamaha has a sub out which I was going to connect to an amp, and run the two twelve inch drivers in the Kappa's. I thought it would lessen the load on the front channels of the receiver. Turns out the Yamaha can handle the Kappa's. The previous gen of the Kappa's are harder to drive (8.0), but these seem fine.
 
knotscott said:
Active bi-amping is one method of bi-amping. It's still bi-amping even using passive crossovers. Active and passive, horizontal or vertical, solid state or tube, or a hybrid of variations, all have advantages and disadvantages, but it's still bi-amping if the task of driving the speakers is shared by additional amp channels. There are so many ways to bi-amp successfully, it's not a situation of all or nothing. I encourage more people to step up and give some basic form of bi-amping a try. Adding an active subwoofer is bi-amping 101. It can lead to very easy and inexpensive improvements, or may turn out sounding the same to you, but every situation is unique, and every result will be different. Give it a fair shake and see. You can always get into more complex configurations, add another amp, some form of active crossover, or try other variations down the road, but don't let thinking you have to go with the full monty to get started stop you (or anyone) from trying.
Click to expand...

I'll save myself some typing.
Active crossover bi-amping:
Effectively (up to) twice the 'real' power of the amplifiers themselves.
Reduced intermodulation distortion.
Elimination of the low frequency passive crossover, its inherent losses, potentially poor linearity and crossover point inaccuracy.
Reduction of the difficulty of the load presented to the power amplifier.
No padding is required to align the driver sensitivities, so we are not simply wasting power.
The damping factor is greatly improved for both the low and midrange loudspeakers.
Complete freedom from any interaction between the loudspeaker driver (and its environment) and the crossover network.
Bi-wiring is included free!
The flexibility to choose amplifiers which are at their best within a defined frequency range.
Ability to match amplifier power to the exact requirements of the drivers for maximum overall efficiency.

Passive Biamping (aka Active Biwiring):
Although this is a topic I've mentioned briefly, it needs to be discussed properly. Using two amplifiers and two sets of speaker cables to drive the existing passive crossover is something I call 'passive biamping' or 'active biwiring'. Various websites may claim that it's true biamping, but it's not, never was and never will be.

In some cases users may hear an improvement, but make sure that it really is an improvement and not just a difference. Because you have separate amps driving the two sections of the crossover, you can easily have a level mismatch that leads you to think that the sound is 'better'. The gains of the two amps used must be identical, or the original balance between mid and high will be changed. Naturally the specific frequency depends on where the passive crossover splits the signal. Apart from (usually) a slightly easier load on the amps, both amplifiers still reproduce the full audio bandwidth, so there is no effective power gain.
Click to expand...

I'll add the notion that one can bi-amp using an AVR is preposterous since all channels are sharing the same power supply and the more channels one uses the less wpc the AVR can provide.
 
The answer to your original question is NO. Think about what is coming out of the sub-out. Likely frequencies of 120Hz or less, not full range, or they would call it a pre-out instead. How will you get the frequencies between 150 Hz and 1500 Hz (or wherever the Kappas crossover to the midrange) into the Kappa's woofers?
 
sqlsavior said:
The answer to your original question is NO. Think about what is coming out of the sub-out. Likely frequencies of 120Hz or less, not full range, or they would call it a pre-out instead. How will you get the frequencies between 150 Hz and 1500 Hz (or wherever the Kappas crossover to the midrange) into the Kappa's woofers?
Click to expand...
Yeah, this is what I was leading up to, it is a stupid idea, but it might work to a certain degree.

Crossover Frequencies: 180Hz, 700Hz, 4.7kHz........Would need to set the Yammy to 180 hz (if possible) and then use a Y-splitter and two amps off the sub out (if there are two), or run the low woofers in mono mode with one amp wired to both sets.
 
Last edited:
I watched the last three episodes of Fallout for the first time, on the new speakers in 5.0, (lossy Atmos mix) with all the bass directed to the Kappa's. I pushed it hard, and the Yamaha isn't even hot. I bet my Polk SDA compacts would draw a heavier load. Thanks community for the first hand experience with the Kappa's. Glad I didn't temporarily have to Frankenstein them. I am sure they wouldn't have sounded nearly as good.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom