JeffBuerster
New Member
Would it hurt my mc2105 to bi wire to my speakers? I was told it may improve my overall sound quality...
Jeff
Jeff
Bi wiring
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RunOutGroove
Addicted Member
No, not at all. Bi-wiring doesn't change the impedance or anything like that and it may make an improvement in the sound. I have some bi-wireable speakers that I made bi-wires for and with an a/b test, I felt like the one with the bi-wire sounded a bit better, if only subtilely so. Apparently some speakers benefit more than others for the treatment, but it can't hurt to try it with whatever you have...
JeffBuerster
New Member
Kool. I was told to find a Mac guy and ask before I possibly damage my old amp which I love dearly. Thank you for your reply....
onemug
Super Member
You may already know this, but in case you don't... you HAVE TO remove the jumpers connecting the 4 posts on the back of each speaker before you hook the amp up in bi-wire configuration or you will risk damage to your 2105. (great amp btw)
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JeffBuerster
New Member
Yeah thanks I did know this...
I don’t think there is any risk of damage if you don’t remove the jumpers, but you won’t get any bi-wire effect. Bi-wiring creates 2 parallel circuits, one where the current is drawn by the woofer circuit and the other drawn by the tweeter circuit. There are very different current levels going down each wire in bi-wire, How much of a sonic difference it makes I don’t know..
I bi-wired my tube amp with 2 10 gauge speaker wires in parallel (the bundle under tech flex looks like a car battery jumper cable). I think it helped the sound quality vs single wiring and sane wire size, but I can’t be certain because it was a long time between before/after samples.
I think a simple way to compare bi-wire to single without changing speaker wires is just add and remove the jumpers on the speaker side (leaving the bi-wire in place). Just make sure they are jumped correctly (+ to *, - to -).
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RunOutGroove
Addicted Member
With the one pair of speakers that I have hooked up that way my A/B test showed a very subtle improvement with the bi-wire. Very subtle is the word, but I still figured, why not?
Another set of speakers that I didn't get to A/B test, but sounded so better in the bigger room that I had them hooked up in (and they're small speakers so I wouldn't have expected the opposite) than I ever would have imagined that I have to wonder if the bi-wires that I had set up in that room may have accounted for some of what I was hearing as an improvement. These particular speakers may just be a kind that the bi-wire thing makes more of a dramatic improvement to. I have that pair currently running as remotes in another room and since the speaker wires I'm currently using are substandard and since I have the wires and connectors to replace the old wires with a bi-wire setup, I figure, why not...
actually it won't unless bi-amping lol. although leaving the jumpers on negates the whole reason to "bi-wire".
twiiii
Lunatic Member
The only advantage to bi-wiring is you are reducing the over all source impedance to the speakers by using a total larger gauge of wire reducing line loss. If you want to really improve your sound and don't mind giving up the meters, you want a MC 7100 or MC 754. Then you will really hear and improvement with larger wire. If you want meters, then I guess a MC 7200. All three have much lower distortion and better signal to noise with a higher damping factor and they all have Power Guard to protect your precious drivers. If they are 4 ohm you will get much more power from the 7100 and 7200.
JeffBuerster
New Member
Yeah I have no plans on replacing my 2105. I was just trying to improve my sound to my polk and I heard that bi wiring MIGHT do a little..... Thanks for ur comment. Jeff
Do it ...
It's easy and easily reversible ...
And easy to compare ..
Bi-wire one speaker and not the other ... then flip the balance button back and forth ..
Peter gave a good description of why it might sound better..
Doesn't hurt to exercise that usually untouched balance button either ..
It's easy and easily reversible ...
And easy to compare ..
Bi-wire one speaker and not the other ... then flip the balance button back and forth ..
Peter gave a good description of why it might sound better..
Doesn't hurt to exercise that usually untouched balance button either ..
JeffBuerster
New Member
True dat! Thanx
There are other potential advantages of bi-wiring ...
Bi-wiring creates two parallel circuits with differing current flows and potentially differing signal transmission characteristics in each circuit ... one obvious effect would be a different EMI profile ..and the obvious advantage of keeping a strong low frequency signal from influencing a weaker high freq. signal that would otherwise be present in the same wire.
A single larger gauge of wire can could just as easily reduce the resistance as two wires ..but it isn't going to affect the signal transmission in the same way.
SinglePoint
Active Member
In the linked article, it was concluded and "proved by measurement" that there are some technical benefits that may or may not apply to your situation. Interesting read, if you are into details.
https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/
https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/
What I see from the article, points to a simpler explanation than IM distortion, IMHO. The difference between a single cable vs. the bi-wire cables shows only that the dividing point of the crossover which is internal to the speaker box with a single cable, moves to the amplifier terminals in the bi-wired cable. It would seem to me that if one placed the current probe in the tweeter crossover circuit inside the speaker box you would see the same effect with a single cable.
The Figure 6 shows the bi-wired results. There is a -65 dB signal peak at 50 Hz in the tweeter bi-wired cable that was *not* present in the single-wire Fig 5, for the tweeter plot. Where did that come from? The claimed reduction of IM distortion also appears opposite to the text, where the red plot in Fig. 6 (bi-wire) has lots more peaks than in the yellow plot of Fig 5 (single cable). Huh?
The linked article also does not identify at what frequencies the IM distortion peaks should appear, or expected from the input signal.
FauxHall
Super Member
One of my Canare speaker cables is 11 AWG* per lead (+ and 0) per speaker or 1.28 ohms per 1000 ft.
Bi-wiring means I've got the equivalent of 8 AWG per speaker or 0.641 ohm per 1000 ft.
I've long argued that the more copper between the amp and the speaker is better (especially tube amps) as the resistance is lower, as a first order effect. That improves the dampening factor for the amp. Impedance is a little more complicated but that would be a second order effect.
As SinglePoint and pch300 point out, another theoretical advantage is separating the bass from the mids/treble sections of the speaker's crossover, or at least moving it back to the amp output.
Like I said, I hear the difference clearly in my situation with a 45 wpc tube amp drive Klipsch Forte IIIs through 12 ft cables.
* Canare specifies the cable in metric but 11 AWG is pretty close and good enough for illustration. It scales the same in metric.
Bi-wiring means I've got the equivalent of 8 AWG per speaker or 0.641 ohm per 1000 ft.
I've long argued that the more copper between the amp and the speaker is better (especially tube amps) as the resistance is lower, as a first order effect. That improves the dampening factor for the amp. Impedance is a little more complicated but that would be a second order effect.
As SinglePoint and pch300 point out, another theoretical advantage is separating the bass from the mids/treble sections of the speaker's crossover, or at least moving it back to the amp output.
Like I said, I hear the difference clearly in my situation with a 45 wpc tube amp drive Klipsch Forte IIIs through 12 ft cables.
* Canare specifies the cable in metric but 11 AWG is pretty close and good enough for illustration. It scales the same in metric.
Ears .. and music ..trust them.
I think that, maybe, there might be a distinct lack of other measuring devices for psychoacoustic phenomenon ..
