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bic vs technics

Lollypalooza

Lollypalooza

Member
I've been watching for turntables on the local clist for awhile. Ive got a pioneer 737, 838 and a 950. I also have an Adcom535 amp with the matching preamp and an Electro Voice AP2300 amp manufactured by Altec Lansing. (I I need a pre amp for that, any suggestions on that would be appreciated)

I joined Audiokarma to help me from making impetuous purchases. I'm not locked in on one specific brand turntable. Although if a vintage Empire in pristine shape happened along for a couple hundred bucks I would be tempted. What I am looking for is something simple and as indestructible as a turntable can be. Aesthetics would be an added bonus.

Unlike many of you I don't have the expertise to repair a turntable. So I don't want to buy some finicky turntable that needs adjustments more often than a carburetor on a Triumph TR3. I have been holding out for a JVC, Technics,or Pioneer. There was a really nice AR a few months ago that I didn't want to spend more than the 200 bucks for. There is a BIC 1000 a lot cheaper. I read one thread about the Bic 1000 that seemed pretty positive on AK. but I remember some negative comments about BIC Venturi speakers, all marketing blah blah blah.

1st... Are BIC turntables and BIC Venturi speakers made by the same company.

2nd...How will a Bic 1000 (supposedly TOTL) compare to a good Pioneer,JVC,Technic etc

I am looking for function, sound quality, reliability, AND if need be repairability

any input and advice always apreciated
 
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If it's reliability and durability you're after, a fully manual Technics is hard to beat.

I have a SL 1800 MK2 (fully manual version of the 1600 and 1700) and it is built like a tank.
 
Well, since you say you don't have DIY expertise, the BIC is probably not right for you. While they're much simpler than a comparable Dual, they're still fully automatic, with lots of mechanisms that need to work just right. Plus they're notorious for "freezing" because the factory used a grease that will harden over time.

Of course, the particular one you're looking at may already have been restored.
 
Here is the posting for the BIC on the clist.

"Bic 1000 Record Player, CD-4 quad capable
Working unit, however, no way of testing the quad feature due to no quad LP's or stereo capable of playback in that mode. It has a working stylus, again unsure if that is the proper one for quad CD-4 playback. It appears the 2 small metal clips which allow the dust cover to hinge open are missing. Oak wood plinth/ cabinet base and dust cover are in very good shape, no cracks or bad scratches etc. At any rate, the CD-4 Quadraphonic turntable is about as rare as hen's teeth."

I think for the price I should buy it. I don't really want to turn this into a dollars and (cents) sense (which I have little of) post.

I had never heard of BIC turntables. I would have to drive 200 miles round trip. I work down that way a couple of days a week, so the drive is not a huge deal. I just don't want to buy a piece of crap.
 
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Lollypalooza said:
1st... Are BIC turntables and BIC Venturi speakers made by the same company.
Click to expand...

BIC (originally British Industry Corporation) was originally an importer of British audio products to the US. They started making turntables and the original BIC Venturi speakers in the 1970s. I'm not certain of the relationship between the BIC America company now and the one back then other than the ownership changed a few times.

My parents had a BIC changer in the 1970s; it was upgraded to a Dual after the BIC was taken in a home robbery. Even as a kid I realised that the Dual was a better built machine than the BIC.
 
I have a bic 960 as well as a pioneer pl540.
I cannot comment on technics but I would assume they are every bit as good as my pioneer.

The build quality of the pioneer is superior to the bic.
I was disappointed with the construction quality of my bic but I bought it for similar reasons you have mentioned.
It was cheap and I read a couple of decent reviews.
In its defense, it is a very good sounding table with a nice low mass tonearm.
In spite of it being a complex fully automatic table,
There are YouTube videos showing how to completely disassemble and adjust everything.
Following the video you could repair pretty much everything if need be.

However,
If I was starting over again,
I would avoid purchasing a bic and stick with the pioneer or technics direct drive tables.
There is a reason they are often refered to as bullet proof.
 
With no expertise in repairing turntables or Lucas electrical systems/carbs then I'd be running away from a BIC and looking for a vintage Japanese made Pioneer, Technics etc.
 
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I have BIC 940, 960, 980 and 1000, as well as a bunch of other tables. I do think the BIC sounds as good as the competition, if not better, but the 1000 is overly complicated, employing a second motor for the auto functions. Mine was a PIA to get working, and this was over and above the usual hardened grease removal routine that is required for all BICs.

So, while I am a fan of the BIC, I'd say a *good* quality Japanese table is probably the way to go. What Japanese tables specifically is the OP looking at?
 
Just no. Wait for a good Japanese direct drive table. Drive 200 miles for a BIC? I turned one down recently at a local antique shop for just a few bucks.
 
OK still skirting the dollars and cents issue but we can all find that CL listing, and see what else is available locally. Somewhat slim pickings compared to some other metropolitan areas but still, I would sit and wait for something better to show up.

And that AR you mention, well, that's about what a good one goes for these days. Still punches way above that price level--if you can live with its quirks, it may be the only TT you ever need.
 
I picked up a Technics sl dd33, a pair of JBL 62's, and a low end JVC rx250 In Iowa City. I haven't hooked anything up yet. The speakers were well reviewed (given what they are) here on AK. I surely didn't need another pair. But at least now I can check the phono inputs on the Pioneers and the Adcom preamp.

I'll pick up a better turntable when one becomes available.

Then when I start asking questions about needles you can all laugh at how ignorant I truly am.

BTW thank you all for the input.

Fritz411 I've been to that guys house. People are actually writing bad things on Craigslist about his offerings.

kirk57 your quote from Lincoln is one of the reasons I decided to subscribe to AK.
 
I'm not sure exactly what happened. I went and looked at some stuff he had for sale about 4 months ago. I thought it was overpriced, but he is a local flipper and I won't condemn him for that, everybody needs to make a buck, but the specific criticism I saw on Clist was that he was telling people one thing and selling them another. If you're not an audiophile and don't do the research and are being taking advantage of then its disingenuous at best. Someone obviously felt they had been taken advantage of and posted as much in the electronic section on Clist.
 
Lollypalooza said:
I'm not sure exactly what happened. I went and looked at some stuff he had for sale about 4 months ago. I thought it was overpriced, but he is a local flipper and I won't condemn him for that, everybody needs to make a buck, but the specific criticism I saw on Clist was that he was telling people one thing and selling them another. If you're not an audiophile and don't do the research and are being taking advantage of then its disingenuous at best. Someone obviously felt they had been taken advantage of and posted as much in the electronic section on Clist.
Click to expand...
Understand
I wanted to read what they had to say!
ANYONE who cries over a "craigslist deals, gone bad!" (say it like "Spring break, girls gone wild!") is being an idiot, sorry
Unless the dude's like holding a gun to their head saying, in a James Bond movie Russian voice "you will buy from me,YES?"
"BUY FROM ME!" "BUY FROM ME!"
 
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Here is a web site you can use for some reference. It will guide you to the better performers, but unfortunately, not the more reliable ones.

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable-database.php

Register with them (it's free and never sends spam) and you can download any of the manuals they have, and they have a lot. The site will also provide you with the specs on most of the turntables they list. Those do mean something. The ones to look for are:

Rumble (Signal to Noise). This is the amount of low frequency noise the turntable itself generates. Less noise is better of course. This is usually a negative number so you want as large a negative as possible. So -75 dB is better then -65 dB. The best of the consumer grade turntables back in the day got to -78 ~ -80 dB (That is a weighted number, and some manufacturers published their spec unweighted and therefore it does not compare directly. I believe AR might have been one of those) All the Japanese makers use the weighting so that direct comparison works just fine.

Wow and flutter. This is a measure of speed stability. (Note this does not mean accuracy.) this is measured as a percentage and smaller is always better. Therefore .025% is better then .05%. The best in breed got down to .025% and sometimes even a bit better.

For any turntable you might want to consider check the site and the specs. If they approach the levels mentioned here, -78dB rumble and .025% wow and flutter the table is a fine performer. Check back here for the issue of reliability. If you see a European table and the specs look poor, check back here, it might be one that that does not weight the rumble.

BTW: In general, the belt drives will show slightly higher wow and flutter numbers then the best of breed direct drives.

Good Luck

Shelly_D
 
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