Bicycles with a motor - is it a motorcycle?

[Mystic]

Also, for some reason Floridians seem to have what I consider an odd attitude about bicycles and sidewalks. I've heard many express shock (yes, shock) that bicycles could share the sidewalk with pedestrians.

While in most of France - and certainly in my town - dedicated bicycle lanes are plentiful to a fault, there are still lots of riders, younger kids and older folks in particular, who prefer to ride on the pedestiran sidewalks. I've never seen nor heard anyone complain about this over here.

 

[Pio1980]

... it's a motorized bicycle ... ;-}

An electric motor (eBike) is even legal for use on any public trail for a handicapper per section 11 of the ADA, so like ... deal with it.

I feel the same way about these idjits on bikes trying to run me down, zipping past without warning when I'm walking the local trails.

I'm debating with myself if my latest machine is a motorcycle. If it helps any, I don't have any current plans to take it on the trails though.

How'z it working for you?

 

[Mystic]

Just saw my first electric bicycle in the normal car traffic lanes, I guess that's what we are going to see here in the future ,no license necessary

While I've no idea what the current law in Alsace-Lorraine or greater France is re: the "E" bicycles, my guess is that it's probbaly not a fully laissez-faire proposition: doubtless there is in place @ least a modicum of regulation(s) ... helmets, restriction from dedicated (manual) bike paths and sidewalks ... but maybe sans necessity of (1) license and/or (2) insurance.

 

[sKiZo]

I don't know what kind of Ebike that is, but in that market $1100 is not normal. That's low end for an Ebike. That doesn't mean it's bad. And Was that new? Or used.

The Rad Rover was brand new about 6 years ago. They started out "crowd funded" so maybe that's got something to do with the price. They're going for around $1700 now, CONUS free shipping included. 750 watt rear hub motor, 180mm brakes, and some nice bells and whistles. Fat Tires!!

How'z it working for you?

Not at all ... <G>

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Had to sell it after a motorcycle accident. Lost one leg (the other one's a full reconstruction) one replacement shoulder (the other one's the bad one) fused back and neck, and I broke a fingernail as well. Biggest problem was (and is) balance due to drain bramage. Great machine right up until the day I couldn't ride it any more - absolutely zero problems with it. Took a whole two days to sell it.

 

[Danddd]

The electric motor is supposed to aid peddling. The thing is, unless you buy a lightweight e-bike, the battery adds a lot of weight for the cheaper models. I've been riding road bikes for 50 plus years and appreciate them a lot. That being said, I am intrigued by a high end e-bike option sometime in the future.

 

[Pio1980]

The Rad Rover was brand new about 6 years ago. They started out "crowd funded" so maybe that's got something to do with the price. They're going for around $1700 now, CONUS free shipping included. 750 watt rear hub motor, 180mm brakes, and some nice bells and whistles. Fat Tires!!



Not at all ... <G>

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Had to sell it after a motorcycle accident. Lost one leg (the other one's a full reconstruction) one replacement shoulder (the other one's the bad one) fused back and neck, and I broke a fingernail as well. Biggest problem was (and is) balance due to drain bramage. Great machine right up until the day I couldn't ride it any more - absolutely zero problems with it. Took a whole two days to sell it.

That's terrible, sorry to hear it.

 

[elcoholic]

I ride the 18 mile r/t bike/pedestrian path along Huntington Beach. It’s posted 10 mph, 5 mph with pedestrians present. I have replacement knees, hips, lumbar fusion and a half withered below the knee right leg, but I pedal because I need the exercise to extend my lifetime. 90% of the road bikes did not obey the speed limit as it was. Pedestrians, especially tourists, tend to be oblivious so you have to be on your toes. The cross traffic of beach goers that don’t look before hauling their tables, EZ-ups, wagons, surfboards was already hazardous. Especially when they have little ones running loose. I hit an idiot teen carrying a 6 foot table across the path recently. Fortunately I hit the end of the table and just spun him around real good and glanced off into the sand. I try to go early which helps. I use front and rear strobes, fluorescent green helmet, light clothing and a loud bell and still have close calls. Now add 30 mph eBikes often piloted by non-helmet wearing surfers with one hand and carrying their board under the other arm. They’ve just added full size street speed limit signs ringed with flashing solar-powered LED’s, but there’s no enforcement. I’m worried about those little ones getting killed. It’s inevitable.

 

[Dingman]

It varies by state, but in general:

A- anything over 49 cc is considered a motorcycle and requires a motorcycle endorsement. In FL (and OH), even a 49 cc vehicle requires a driver's license.

B- in FL those three wheelers (even the "Slingshot" are considered motorcycles and also require a motorcycle endorsement.

C- in FL you are required to either, 1- have insurance on a motorcycle, or 2- wear a helmet.


FL claims to be bicycle on roadway friendly yet they seem to be either confused or unaware of the actualities of that mode of transportation.
They are extensively and at great cost, repaving a 4 lane 60 MPH artery including relocating curbs and medians to add 36-48 inch wide bike lanes.
In the past 4 years I can count on one hand how many bicyclists I've seen on that road which I travel on twice a day for about 10 miles.

OTOH, the secondary, 2 lane 45 MPH road that leads to my neighborhood has frequent if not heavy bicycle and pedestrian traffic every day at all hours, and has an 18 inch (if that) section between the white line and the nearly sheer drainage ditch drop-off.

ATTENTION FL DOT- spend the money where it's needed and where it's cost effective.....PLEASE!


Also, for some reason Floridians seem to have what I consider an odd attitude about bicycles and sidewalks. I've heard many express shock (yes, shock) that bicycles could share the sidewalk with pedestrians.
In OH, this is very common and accepted as normal. Not sure why FL feels differently. From a physics standpoint a potential collision between a 20 MPH or less bike and pedestrian is way less potential for injury than a collision between that 20 MPH (usually WAY less) bike and a 45 to 60 MPH car.

Excellent post - thanks for the info.

 

[Dingman]

The electric motor is supposed to aid peddling. The thing is, unless you buy a lightweight e-bike, the battery adds a lot of weight for the cheaper models. I've been riding road bikes for 50 plus years and appreciate them a lot. That being said, I am intrigued by a high end e-bike option sometime in the future.

But there's no distinction on the bike trails. Apparently now, every damn bike with a motor is now allowed on the bike trail. Pedal assist with no assist above about 12 mph would be just fine with me.
And I want to say again - these lazy-bikes are inviting people who have NEVER RIDDEN BIKES before to suddenly buy the motorcycle and suddenly they are on the trail, creating dangerous situations. Again I'll say, they don't know trail safety! In fact, it seems they are going so fast, if they were to call out "on your left" (which they don't) - they would have shout that 30 feet before the actual pass because they are going 20 mph.
I don't like it, I don't condone it and I'll be advocating at the city council that we go back to "no motorized vehicles" on the bike trails. Build your own motorcycle trails if you want them, but stay off the bicycle trails because they are already full with cyclists and we don't need a motorcycle weaving in and out, trying to pass everyone at high speed. ON the uphill.

 

[Dingman]

The electric motor is supposed to aid peddling. The thing is, unless you buy a lightweight e-bike, the battery adds a lot of weight for the cheaper models. I've been riding road bikes for 50 plus years and appreciate them a lot. That being said, I am intrigued by a high end e-bike option sometime in the future.

I can't deny that I've got friends (we're all aging) that are talking about it. I tell them the same that I'll do - when you can't do it anymore, stop. Find a another way.
I've broken left elbow, left wrist, left ankle, all my ribs multiple times, multiple compression fractures in 80% of my vertebrae. Both collar bones a couple of times each.
I don't need no stinkin' motor. When I can't ride anymore, then I'll stop. I won't **** up the cycling experience for other people.
And again, I'm talking bike trails (although I am from the land of RAGBRAI and have quite a few of those under my belt) in regards to this particular rant.
Thanks!

 

[Nautiker]

On our local trails, E bikes are authorized, but Nothing with an IC engine... And the E bikes are limited to 20 mph... The Rad Rover looks like a fun ride...

 

[sqlsavior]

I'd rather have a nice, four foot wide paved shoulder on both sides of the roads than a separate eight foot wide bike path, in most circumstances. The limited amount of bike path riding that I've done has not been all that carefree or relaxing. Lots of traffic at mixed velocities and with different sensibilities. I agree that No Motorized Vehicles should mean just that.

 

[sanford12]

My Su-ron Light Bee was just a tad under $6000 and it tops out around 60 mph. Its scary at full speed but no different then a Harley except its nearly silent, just chain noises. We only take them out to the dirt/wilderness areas, away from the trails. To me, its an electric motorcycle and has no business on a bike path/trail. That's just inconsiderate.

They are considered motorcycles with that speed. Mine does 23mph tops and considered a motor assisted bicycle legal on trails. There's regular bicycles that hit it hard on the paved trails around here. Everybody just needs to exercise some sense and be considerate.

 

[sKiZo]

You want a rant - how about the majority of people who walk on the wrong side of the trail?

Ride WITH traffic
Walk AGAINST traffic

Same rules apply to ANY public transportation network here in the states.

(And yes, by definition, a qualifying eBike is speed limited to 20Mph here in the states. Any motor equipped bike (either gas or electric, steam if you prefer) that can go faster is technically a "pedelec". That said, eBike speed limiters are relatively easy to hack, and producers tend to play fast and loose with the standard. )

 

[Dingman]

They are considered motorcycles with that speed. Mine does 23mph tops and considered a motor assisted bicycle legal on trails. There's regular bicycles that hit it hard on the paved trails around here. Everybody just needs to exercise some sense and be considerate.

I agree that everyone needs to be considerate, and the trails are big enough to share.
But you bring the point. Your motorcycle can do 23 mph for sustained periods? I'll say right now without a motor, 23 mph for more than a few miles (not counting in a group drafting) will get you attention from racing teams, and this would be on a flat. This is simply too fast for norm al trail sharing. Obviously, I'm not saying you would ride this way, but if the "power" is available, you know the noobs will use it.

 

[Dingman]

You want a rant - how about the majority of people who walk on the wrong side of the trail?

Ride WITH traffic
Walk AGAINST traffic

Same rules apply to ANY public transportation network here in the states.

(And yes, by definition, a qualifying eBike is speed limited to 20Mph here in the states. Any motor equipped bike (either gas or electric, steam if you prefer) that can go faster is technically a "pedelec". That said, eBike speed limiters are relatively easy to hack, and producers tend to play fast and loose with the standard. )

I wasn't going to bring this up, but yup - the speed limiters are crazy easy to bypass. I don't know if that's what I'm seeing on the trails, I just can't tell.

 

[sanford12]

I agree that everyone needs to be considerate, and the trails are big enough to share.
But you bring the point. Your motorcycle can do 23 mph for sustained periods? I'll say right now without a motor, 23 mph for more than a few miles (not counting in a group drafting) will get you attention from racing teams, and this would be on a flat. This is simply too fast for norm al trail sharing. Obviously, I'm not saying you would ride this way, but if the "power" is available, you know the noobs will use it.

You also have to remember too that at 23mph I'll be using the throttle and burn through the battery pretty quickly. Hills would slow the Ebike drastically. There's douche bags present no matter what you do. It's a part of life.

 

[432HzBob]

It's a mixed bag.
My Dad's lady friend has hip and knee problems so he got her a little 250 watt front motor hub so she could enjoy rides with him as he rides some kind of feather weight Specialized bike you pedal 3 times and can coast half a mile.
On the other hand, where I live, I see tourist's ALL the time on our bike trails, designed to separate bikes from car traffic while still getting you there, just mash the throttle everywhere they go and NEVER pedal the bike once..
You give these people a 10,000 watt e-bike (hypothetical of course) and they'll buy them up and do 100mph everywhere they go, never giving a thought to anyone around them or the insanity of the "more power" game I come to term it this obsession with all things speed and more powerful these days.
Only humans can quickly ruin a good thing with their lack of common sense and self control.
For my own part, I have ridden for 10 years now, year round, in snow country even with studded winter tires, using a small 250 watt Clean Republic front motor kit that assists tremendously in icy conditions and with all the hills we have in the mountains.
And yes, I will agree, the vast majority of humans are absolutely lazy. Many would never peddle their bike ever again so long as they can mash the throttle and have a motor haul them around..

 

[swechsler]

When I was a kid, motorbike is what we called a bicycle to which an engine had been added. Maybe it was a regional term (NYC area), but ISTM that the term is still accurate, even if the "motor" is now truly a motor and not an engine.

 

[rhodus]

The Rad Rover was brand new about 6 years ago. They started out "crowd funded" so maybe that's got something to do with the price. They're going for around $1700 now, CONUS free shipping included. 750 watt rear hub motor, 180mm brakes, and some nice bells and whistles. Fat Tires!!



Not at all ... <G>

.

.

.

Had to sell it after a motorcycle accident. Lost one leg (the other one's a full reconstruction) one replacement shoulder (the other one's the bad one) fused back and neck, and I broke a fingernail as well. Biggest problem was (and is) balance due to drain bramage. Great machine right up until the day I couldn't ride it any more - absolutely zero problems with it. Took a whole two days to sell it.

Dammit