Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
I have a bit tied up in these, so I'd like some return, and want to give them a fair shake.
Bose 601 II journey...
- Thread starter Copa1934
- Start date
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
Nickleback: All the right reasons, Pink Floyd: Dark side of the moon
OK, first I have to say I've been listening to my recently acquired Pioneer DSS9, so anything I say that comes across as negative, should be a reflection of having listened to some outstanding speakers for a while now.
First how can one NOT appreciate solid imaging? I've heard/read so many offhanded descriptions of the "bose sound" that truly makes me wonder just how much time people spent setting them up correctly and then giving them adequate time for their ears to acclimatize.
I did have a change of equipment, in the process. I had a Pioneer SX-680 running the "East" wall in the man cave, and while it did OK, there were times it was being taxed (sounding like clipping and/or distortion). Running at higher volumes OR running speakers with low enough impedance can be a test for this receiver, though it has done a commendable job. This weekend it was replaced with my old STA-2500 (100wpc) receiver, which I've owned since new, and has been one of my favorite receivers.
Starting with Nickleback, I was a tad, just a tad mind you, let down by the bass delivered. I need to make something really clear here. They do have deep bass, they just don't deliver the "volume" I've become accustomed to with other speakers using 12" drivers, the 901 or even 10" drivers. Now, another caveat. These speakers do NOT have all original drivers. The upper woofers are from a 301. Now, all 4 woofers tested very close, with the original 601 drivers having lower f(s). Without a spectrum check it's very difficult to say just how close they are in frequency response. One key difference is the 601 have a cloth dust cap (that breaths) where the 301 are hard and solid. Performance with Nickleback was otherwise enjoyable. All the instruments were strong and present, but typical of Bose the imaging was definitely better than most speakers I've owned. If I was to sum it up, with the 601 the hard hitting music lacks the "authority" I would expect from Nickleback. Vocals and instruments other than the bass, came through great. Cymbals, which are a pet peeve of mine (not engineered well or the speakers do a poor job of reproduction), sounded very natural with the 601. Nice and crisp sounding. Drums had a good hard hitting sound to them, as would be expected for this band.
Dark side of the moon was fun. And the opening to "Time" was eery. That one last clock chiming, and fading out slowly, was very cool and very natural sounding. There is a thread going about speakers handling Dark Side of the Moon, which is all fine and dandy, but this LP is a lot more than just bass. There is judicious amounts of panning and "imaging". Sadly I think many people don't get to enjoy this due to focusing on bass primarily. With the correct speakers, placed correctly, this LP is a cornucopia of imaging effects. And the 601 are more than happy to deliver. Whatever bass was lacking or absent was hardly missed thanks to all that these speakers made up for in imaging. Not listening to this LP with speakers that image this well is a total disservice to their work. Where Nickleback left me wanting for more (again a tad stronger bass), Dark Side of the Moon left me simply taking in the entire LP (or in this case a CD). I wish I'd taken notes, but I was busy enjoying myself.
I'll do some more CD's and some LP's as well. Likely won't be till the coming weekend.
OK, first I have to say I've been listening to my recently acquired Pioneer DSS9, so anything I say that comes across as negative, should be a reflection of having listened to some outstanding speakers for a while now.
First how can one NOT appreciate solid imaging? I've heard/read so many offhanded descriptions of the "bose sound" that truly makes me wonder just how much time people spent setting them up correctly and then giving them adequate time for their ears to acclimatize.
I did have a change of equipment, in the process. I had a Pioneer SX-680 running the "East" wall in the man cave, and while it did OK, there were times it was being taxed (sounding like clipping and/or distortion). Running at higher volumes OR running speakers with low enough impedance can be a test for this receiver, though it has done a commendable job. This weekend it was replaced with my old STA-2500 (100wpc) receiver, which I've owned since new, and has been one of my favorite receivers.
Starting with Nickleback, I was a tad, just a tad mind you, let down by the bass delivered. I need to make something really clear here. They do have deep bass, they just don't deliver the "volume" I've become accustomed to with other speakers using 12" drivers, the 901 or even 10" drivers. Now, another caveat. These speakers do NOT have all original drivers. The upper woofers are from a 301. Now, all 4 woofers tested very close, with the original 601 drivers having lower f(s). Without a spectrum check it's very difficult to say just how close they are in frequency response. One key difference is the 601 have a cloth dust cap (that breaths) where the 301 are hard and solid. Performance with Nickleback was otherwise enjoyable. All the instruments were strong and present, but typical of Bose the imaging was definitely better than most speakers I've owned. If I was to sum it up, with the 601 the hard hitting music lacks the "authority" I would expect from Nickleback. Vocals and instruments other than the bass, came through great. Cymbals, which are a pet peeve of mine (not engineered well or the speakers do a poor job of reproduction), sounded very natural with the 601. Nice and crisp sounding. Drums had a good hard hitting sound to them, as would be expected for this band.
Dark side of the moon was fun. And the opening to "Time" was eery. That one last clock chiming, and fading out slowly, was very cool and very natural sounding. There is a thread going about speakers handling Dark Side of the Moon, which is all fine and dandy, but this LP is a lot more than just bass. There is judicious amounts of panning and "imaging". Sadly I think many people don't get to enjoy this due to focusing on bass primarily. With the correct speakers, placed correctly, this LP is a cornucopia of imaging effects. And the 601 are more than happy to deliver. Whatever bass was lacking or absent was hardly missed thanks to all that these speakers made up for in imaging. Not listening to this LP with speakers that image this well is a total disservice to their work. Where Nickleback left me wanting for more (again a tad stronger bass), Dark Side of the Moon left me simply taking in the entire LP (or in this case a CD). I wish I'd taken notes, but I was busy enjoying myself.
I'll do some more CD's and some LP's as well. Likely won't be till the coming weekend.
Nice writeup, Copa.
They're a fun set of speakers.
They're a fun set of speakers.
I get plenty of bass out of my series one's .. that said I run a sub with mine for that little extra thump.
Best-
Boozehound
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
Like I said, I've been spoiled by some impressive speakers, Pioneer S-710/910 and DSS9. Spoiled rotten with bass. But, sometimes bass CAN be too much.
I can't find any "negative" to these speakers. The 601 II do a lot really well. Better than most of my speakers. So the minor loss of bass is by no means to pass on these speakers. I would love to find out how they would perform with all the correct woofers.
GD70
Lunatic Member
Nice write up Copa. I think you need to find original woofers and then reassess.
Glenn
Donkey Karma
Super Member
Very nice write up indeed & NICE WORK. I was close to getting my hands on a pair of these to restore but missed my window. They have always intrigued me. I will now be keeping my eyes open for sure.
Side note GD70 Your work on the KLH's inspired me to refurb a pair of 5's. Worthy effort and your work was used as a template. Thanks!
cube-tube
Super Member
Unless you made proper adjustments to the crossovers (other than just updating components), to compensate for the 4 ohm and 8 ohm drivers of both the 601's and 301's, that's probably where and why you're missing out on some bass.
With that said, years ago, one of my brothers had a pair of these 601 v2's that he had refoamed, using all original drivers of course. He powered them with a pair of McIntosh MC2100's bridged mono (210 watts per channel). They had ample, and much deeper bass capabilities than the Klipsch Cornwall II's I was running at the time, and I was powering those with either a pair of McIntosh MC250's bridged mono or a Carver TFM-35X. I also ran those same amps on a pair of Infinity Kappa 6's (10" woofers), and the 601's blew those away with their bass, as well as a pair of JBL L112's (12" woofers) I also had at the time.
The one thing I noticed with the 601's, and my brother agrees, is that their midrange tended to be just a tad bit recessed. Vocals always seemed to be pushed back just a bit in the mix. Other than that, they were amazingly good sounding speakers. I wish I had some pics of them still along with the ones I had, but most were lost when my harddrive took a dump on me.
With that said, years ago, one of my brothers had a pair of these 601 v2's that he had refoamed, using all original drivers of course. He powered them with a pair of McIntosh MC2100's bridged mono (210 watts per channel). They had ample, and much deeper bass capabilities than the Klipsch Cornwall II's I was running at the time, and I was powering those with either a pair of McIntosh MC250's bridged mono or a Carver TFM-35X. I also ran those same amps on a pair of Infinity Kappa 6's (10" woofers), and the 601's blew those away with their bass, as well as a pair of JBL L112's (12" woofers) I also had at the time.
The one thing I noticed with the 601's, and my brother agrees, is that their midrange tended to be just a tad bit recessed. Vocals always seemed to be pushed back just a bit in the mix. Other than that, they were amazingly good sounding speakers. I wish I had some pics of them still along with the ones I had, but most were lost when my harddrive took a dump on me.
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
I'll have to double check, but the 301 II drivers I'm using checked out as 4-ohm. But they have a sealed dust cap which does impact frequency response. There could be more to it than that, like VC, spider, etc.
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
Holy crap!
This past weekend I picked up a Realistic SA-2001 and TA-2001 tuner. Cosmetically 10/10 and 9/10 respectively. Oh but that is NOT the good news.
I had a Pioneer SX-680 that I was running the Bose with and they sounded good, but I noted bass was NOT what I was anticipating, in part due to feedback from other owners. I replaced the Pioneer with a Realistic STA-2500, this was a definite step up in performance and helped bottom end. Better, but still not what I had read. Not the reputation we'll say.
Tonight I finally hooked up the SA-2001 and OMG! The difference his huge, really huge. This is truly a beautiful match. Nothing lost in the middle or high end, but tons gained in the bottom end. A friend of mine was interested in these, but looks like that's not happening.
I am happy with these now. Really a pleasant surprise. I'll post more after more time with them.
This past weekend I picked up a Realistic SA-2001 and TA-2001 tuner. Cosmetically 10/10 and 9/10 respectively. Oh but that is NOT the good news.
I had a Pioneer SX-680 that I was running the Bose with and they sounded good, but I noted bass was NOT what I was anticipating, in part due to feedback from other owners. I replaced the Pioneer with a Realistic STA-2500, this was a definite step up in performance and helped bottom end. Better, but still not what I had read. Not the reputation we'll say.
Tonight I finally hooked up the SA-2001 and OMG! The difference his huge, really huge. This is truly a beautiful match. Nothing lost in the middle or high end, but tons gained in the bottom end. A friend of mine was interested in these, but looks like that's not happening.
I am happy with these now. Really a pleasant surprise. I'll post more after more time with them.
GD70
Lunatic Member
:thmbsp:
Gear makes such a difference in sound. I've read so many times it doesn't change much from brand to brand.
I bet once you get correct woofers, they'll be even better!
Glenn
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
I used to be of the mindset that equipment doesn't (shouldn't?) change things much. But as I had chances to change things around, not all at once, I discovered how much difference any one piece of equipment can make. Sometimes changing out a receiver or amp didn't make too noticeable a difference. But I think as you move up the "quality" ladder that changes more prominently. Keeping everything else in the chain the same and ONLY changing out receivers made such a dramatic change. But of course I'm working with better quality speakers than I have in the past.
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
Correction, TM-1001 tuner.
I didn't want to comment on your amplification, or setup, but I suspected something was off.
Mated to my Carver the Receiver 900 (nice 90 wpc) the sound is effortless, gargantuan space, and I don't feel any single bandwidth is ignored, or overstated. Bass? Puh-lenty!
Glad you're dialed in now. Enjoy.
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
Growing all the time...
Coming from you I would not have been offended. One issue I learned early on is the impact of "sources". But I don't recall such a dramatic difference, in the past. So had you said something it would have been welcome advice/input.
I don't know that I can say "effortless" in my case, not yet anyway. But hands down better. I'll definitely be spending more "quality" time with them.
Thanks again for the input.
Coming from you I would not have been offended. One issue I learned early on is the impact of "sources". But I don't recall such a dramatic difference, in the past. So had you said something it would have been welcome advice/input.
I don't know that I can say "effortless" in my case, not yet anyway. But hands down better. I'll definitely be spending more "quality" time with them.
Thanks again for the input.
You know, I think my Bose speakers benefit from the Carver "enhancements". It has some weird spatial processing thing, unlike any amp I've ever heard, and those Bose seem to mate to it quite well.
I had a Sony 7065A hooked to them, sounded very nice, but the Carver and the Bose have that elusive synergy.
I have noticed they really seem to like wattage.
I had a Sony 7065A hooked to them, sounded very nice, but the Carver and the Bose have that elusive synergy.
I have noticed they really seem to like wattage.
Copa1934
My ears are bleeding
When "Nickleback" hits you upside the face, then it's all happening like it should.
Like "Hannibal" loved to say "I love it when a plan comes together".
Yes (Synergy) the key word, you never know what might match up and be the chit.
Best-
Boozehound
Copa:
I can share with you that I heard the 601'2 in a lisitening room 30+ years ago
and will never forget the live sound that came out of these speakers.
I asked the tech what else he had going with them he said nothing just BIG
clean juice.
The Bose 601'2 are arguably the best speakers Bose ever made. get it right
and you wont be disappointed.
Best-
Boozehound
I can share with you that I heard the 601'2 in a lisitening room 30+ years ago
and will never forget the live sound that came out of these speakers.
I asked the tech what else he had going with them he said nothing just BIG
clean juice.
The Bose 601'2 are arguably the best speakers Bose ever made. get it right
and you wont be disappointed.
Best-
Boozehound
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