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BOTL? or TOTL?

AudioHertz

AudioHertz

Can You Hear That?
Hello Everyone!

This may sound crazy so, I'll try to keep this simple.

As I read thru a lot of the discussions in this forum, at some point someone will mention something about a piece of equipment being Top or Bottom of the line.

With so many manufacturers, who have many lines of equipment, how do you know or determine what equipment is BOTL and whats TOTL?

I know with new equipment that is still being sold, you can simply ask the sales rep whether the piece you're interested in is entry, mid or high end. But what about vintage equipment? I know sometimes I get lucky and in my research, I run across something that tells me that info but, that doesn't happen very often.

Is there an easy way to know or find out where the equipment fits in the manufacturers line?

Thanks for your help!!
 
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Research and asking questions on this forum may get you your answer. Failing that, there are some things that may indicate the higher models in the line. Size, weight, number of inputs, number of meters, number of controls and indicators usually increase as you move up the line. And possibly a higher model number.
 
It can get confusing. I have a "vintage"BOTL integrated amp that sounds great! Sometimes it can just mean it doesn't have many bells and whistles, or in the case of my small amp its not very powerful (15wpc) but is still built with the same quality as the TOTL in the same series or line up.
 
Like others said, a bit of research can go a long way but some general guidelines seem to apply.

The higher up the line you go, the more features and power you get. Likewise, the higher up the line you go, the higher the model numbers seem to go.

Again, the higher up the line you go is no guarantee that the better the sound you will get.
 
Sometimes if you know the series which the model is in.

For instance SONY Str x800 receivers.

BOTL is the Str 1800

TOTL is the Str 7800

Sansui has 9090, 8080, 7070 receivers
 
Lavane said:
Sometimes it can just mean it doesn't have many bells and whistles, or in the case of my small amp its not very powerful (15wpc) but is still built with the same quality as the TOTL in the same series or line up.
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Great point!! :scratch2:
 
Biggest thing I've learned is quality of sound boils down to what type of signal path and your ears in finding out what's up. As far as determining where a piece of equipment falls in a lineup? Hunker down and search. (Patterns with model numbers tend to be lineal as you go up the scale within each generation.....quality of the sound "you like" doesn't always follow though/but mostly does/sometimes stays way similar to dead on with added features and higher power rating only.)

A great thing is a smaller unit in one brand can be better for you than a higher one in another.....and damn the torpedoes because it "is" all about you.
 
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My Tandberg TR200 was the smallest receiver of Tandberg in the mid seventies, my Tandberg TR2080 was the biggest one. Both have the same styling, knobs, woodcase etc.

This is my understanding of BOTL/TOTL of a brand's series.
 
it can be tough as manufacturers often had a TOTL piece in one market and in another there may have been several other models above it.
With the Japanese, often the top model had the 9 designation, example 9090, A91D, SA9800, CTF9191, PD91, GXR99 etc. The presence of 9s is often a giveaway- not always, but often.
 
With vintage gear, the number of knobs, inputs, and features tend to increase as the unit goes up in price. In some cases, the presence of Speakers A, B, and C indicate a higher quality unit (Cheaper models have A and B only - though there are many great amplifiers with only A and B). Presence of a Phono 1 and 2 is another indicator of a nicer model, as well as pre-out/main-in jumpers or a switch. A visual example to help out with these two Scott integrated amplifiers.

This is the Scott 420A, the 40 watt per channel entry level integrated unit.
200771-h_h_scott_420a_amptube___.jpg


This is the Scott 480A, the 85 watt per channel integrated unit which was their nicest offering (AFAIK) at the time.
img6198l.jpg


The Scotts are unique in that they have meters on the cheaper model, but with other brands the cheaper ones often don't have meters. On receivers, cheaper models will usually only have a tuning indicator to let you know when centered and no signal strength. A nicer unit will have the signal strength. In some cases, the nicest receivers also have meters for the left and right channels in addition to those tuner related meters.

Generally try and figure out the model series and just increase the numbers until you find nothing. So knowing Sansui makes a 9090, keep going down until you find nothing if you're unsure - 8080, 7070, etc. This method works better with some brands than others. You'll sort of get a feel for it over time. FWIW, don't get too caught up if you think the BOTL is not as good as the TOTL. With many units the BOTL just has less wattage than the TOTL along with some features. Sound quality would still be great, but it of course won't drive inefficient loads too loudly.
 
Vistance said:
FWIW, don't get too caught up if you think the BOTL is not as good as the TOTL. With many units the BOTL just has less wattage than the TOTL along with some features. Sound quality would still be great, but it of course won't drive inefficient loads too loudly.
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Wow! Great advice from all of you!

I really need to keep the above info in mind as I'm choosing my equipment.
 
If you can find a scan of the manufacturers brochure from the year of manufacture, that will tell you where in the hierarchy a particular piece falls.

Another great source is the (now defunct) Audio magazines's Annual Equipment Directory, which listed most of what was available, prices and specs for that year. I wish somebody would scan and post those, it's a fantastic resource, but it would be a lot of work. I have the 1977, 1984 and 1987 issues, so I can look something up for those years.
 
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kirk57 said:
If you can find a scan of the manufacturers brochure from the year of manufacture, that will tell you where in the hierarchy a particular piece falls.

Another great source is the (now defunct) Audio magazines's Annual Equipment Directory, which listed most of what was available, prices and specs for that year. I was somebody would scan and post those, it's a fantastic resource, but it would be a lot of work. I have the 1977, 1984 and 1987 issues, so I can look something up for those years.
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Kirk, that would be an awesome resource! :yes:

Thanks for the info.
 
A better example probably would be to stay within the same model year or years; in that case the TR 2080 was TOTL from say 1978 thru 1982, with the TR 2030 being the BOTL or entry model in the same timeframe.

John

HarmanKardon said:
My Tandberg TR200 was the smallest receiver of Tandberg in the mid seventies, my Tandberg TR2080 was the biggest one. Both have the same styling, knobs, woodcase etc.

This is my understanding of BOTL/TOTL of a brand's series.
Click to expand...
 
jdurbin1 said:
A better example probably would be to stay within the same model year or years; in that case the TR 2080 was TOTL from say 1978 thru 1982, with the TR 2030 being the BOTL or entry model in the same timeframe.

John
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Aaahh...got it!

Thanks John
 
My apologies if I digress slightly from the OP's question...

Great advice is to look up marketing literature or spec sheets that are available on line for any given manufacturer to determine what they considered to be BOTL vs TOTL for any given model line during a production run.

However, many TOTL models were designated by marketing gurus and the number of "bells and whistles" incorporated into the product and, of course, prices... TOTL being most expensive. In many cases, the TOTL was not the most "desireable" model in the product line, especially when factoring in "bang for the buck" and actual performance. As already noted in a previous post, in many cases, sound and buiild quality were virtually identical, the primary difference being the "bells and whistles" and power rating.

When buying vintage, "TOTL" models often command inflated prices, since fewer of them were sold (read, affordable) at the time they were produced, whereas going a notch or two down the model chain, the prices are considerably lower, based on volume of original sales/current availability.

And here's where I really digress... If comparing different model or brand line-ups... one line's TOTL may not hold a candle to another's BOTL...

It only matters if it sounds good to YOU!!!
 
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