Two possibilities:
1. The engineers at Benchmark are clueless and don't understand the concept.
2. You are using the wrong criteria for making that assessment.
Take your pick.
Burson Audio V6 Vivid Opamps review: “Put some smack in yer DAC!!!”
1. The engineers at Benchmark are clueless and don't understand the concept.
2. You are using the wrong criteria for making that assessment.
Take your pick.
wyn palmer
Addicted Member
The measurement was made using the voltages on what I believed were the output devices.Two possibilities:
1. The engineers at Benchmark are clueless and don't understand the concept.
2. You are using the wrong criteria for making that assessment.
Take your pick.
Perhaps the thresholds of operation that they use are not what I would expect based on a linear power calculation.
That is option # 3- it's not the "ideal" class H operation but some lesser variant that relies mostly on the SMPS for power savings.
A Class H amp has variable rail voltages. The AHB2 either does or it doesn't.
They are wrong or you are wrong.
Take your pick.
wyn palmer
Addicted Member
Class G has multiple rail voltages. Class H has a continuously variable rail voltage. I don't see evidence of the latter, at least within my limited measurement set. Perhaps there's some threshold that has to be crossed. If so, and I did not see it, I, and the person that previously informed me that I was wrong in assuming that the AHB2 was indeed class H, are presently both wrong, and my original assumption, based on the Stereophile article etc. was in fact right.
Either way, it's always better to have a clear, unequivocal understanding.
Being wrong is never a problem. Being unwilling to correct your thinking in the presence of new, and confirmed, facts, is- especially if your original perspective is renewed by those facts.
I will revisit my measurements and explore what happens to the supply voltage with a wider power output excursion. It will require that I return to a temporary single amp/stereo configuration, but that's fine.
wyn palmer
Addicted Member
Incidentally, I am a board member of the local Symphony Orchestra, I am one of four members of the committee that selects the musical programs for the Symphony and I attend numerous performances and rehearsals. In fact I am used as an expert reference for the assessment/calibration of the Meyer Constellation system that we have just had installed in our local newly constructed "symphony Hall". I also consult with the recording engineer that archives the local symphony/chamber performances. I may not have a baby grand at home but I certainly know what a Steinway model D sounds like...Apparently, you don't understand that Harry Pearson was the founder and editor of TAS. Yes, there were other reviewers on staff.
So, you never heard them. It is quite understandable to me why that company lived a short life.
You either hear the discontinuity of the lower keys of a piano radiating as a monopole while the upper ones radiates as a dipole - or you don't.
I listen to wifey play her baby grand on a regular basis.
I also have a friend that won the Tchaikovsky competition a number of years ago, and he respects my opinion on the sound of pianists. So, yes, I do understand what a piano sounds like.
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wyn palmer
Addicted Member
Sorry. I didn't mean to invoke your hate. I do agree, it seems a rather trivial issue to argue about. Hopefully it will now end.
Estat and I have a sort of minor enmity that goes back a while. I really don't understand why, and I wish it would end- but it is what it is.
lattiboy
Well-Known Member
I’m joking, I don’t hate anybody, but I’m missing people who have questions or feedback because of the wall of technical jargon being posted. I’m too unfamiliar to even have an opinion on what you guys are talking about!
Phaceless56
Active Member
Yeah about Burson ??
I had three Burson V-6 Vivids in my MusicHall 25.3 DAC. It also has a Mullard CV 2493 tube in it.
The digital chain also has a Singxer F-1 SPDIF bridge in it. Amps were Parasound HCA-750As, the speakers were ADS L1290s.
I did not care for the Bursons. The detail and resolution they added was counter-balanced by an edginess, and a lack of forgiveness of imperfections in the recordings (especially internet audio links). They aggravated my tinnitus, also, though later I discovered a wax impaction that was a major source of my tinnitus.
I passed the Bursons on to someone else who enjoys them. They just weren't smooth and did not enhance the 'musicality' of my system.
The digital chain also has a Singxer F-1 SPDIF bridge in it. Amps were Parasound HCA-750As, the speakers were ADS L1290s.
I did not care for the Bursons. The detail and resolution they added was counter-balanced by an edginess, and a lack of forgiveness of imperfections in the recordings (especially internet audio links). They aggravated my tinnitus, also, though later I discovered a wax impaction that was a major source of my tinnitus.
I passed the Bursons on to someone else who enjoys them. They just weren't smooth and did not enhance the 'musicality' of my system.
Wheew. Thought I was the only one and I'm glad I'm not.
Man there are some super smart folks here on AK.
I just read all 3 pages and my head kinda hurts.
mjw21a
Super Member
Yes, I've run all Burson offerings (V5i, V6 Vivid and V6 Classic) in my Muji Studio DAC II and have found the V5i shares the sound signature of the V6 Vivid. Just a tiny bit less transparent and detailed, and uses less power so works in both positions of my DAC where the V6 will only work in one.
The V6 Classic are more tube sounding so they're my choice in a piece of equipment without a tube output stage. My Muji has tubes so I prefer the Vivid.
I'm now using Sparkos SS3602 in the section which doesn't have enough power for the V6. The Sparkos is more transparent and detailed though is also brighter and with less bass. For me the SS3602 + V6 Vivid is a great combination with the Phillips ECC88 tubes. If the DAC didn't have a tube output stage I'd no doubt prefer the Classics instead.
Good to see you've started modding your DAC. You can get great performance from that little thing. I had a Xian When DAC-01A for a while too. Sounds great for the price once fully tricked out.
If not concerned able putting costly caps in an inexpensive DAC, I'd highly recommend replacing the output caps with Arizona Blue Cactus caps. Just spectacular performance for the price and smaller than Miflex / Jupiter / Duelund caps.
I did try some of the Chinese discrete OPAMPS.... Quite nice if not for the complete absence of bass. True in every circuit I tried them in. Supposedly Marantz JDAM based.
The V6 Classic are more tube sounding so they're my choice in a piece of equipment without a tube output stage. My Muji has tubes so I prefer the Vivid.
I'm now using Sparkos SS3602 in the section which doesn't have enough power for the V6. The Sparkos is more transparent and detailed though is also brighter and with less bass. For me the SS3602 + V6 Vivid is a great combination with the Phillips ECC88 tubes. If the DAC didn't have a tube output stage I'd no doubt prefer the Classics instead.
Good to see you've started modding your DAC. You can get great performance from that little thing. I had a Xian When DAC-01A for a while too. Sounds great for the price once fully tricked out.
If not concerned able putting costly caps in an inexpensive DAC, I'd highly recommend replacing the output caps with Arizona Blue Cactus caps. Just spectacular performance for the price and smaller than Miflex / Jupiter / Duelund caps.
I did try some of the Chinese discrete OPAMPS.... Quite nice if not for the complete absence of bass. True in every circuit I tried them in. Supposedly Marantz JDAM based.
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lattiboy
Well-Known Member
Very cool! I’ll have the D1+ on Friday and I plan on adding bursons too it too. Any tube recommendations?
I’m not one to believe cables have any real difference, I only use class D amps anymore because I think amplification is amplification, but the Vivids do.... something.
It’s so odd, as on paper they shouldn’t matter (or should actively make things worse!), but the difference is SO PRONOUNCED I can’t ignore it. And it isn’t louder, so it’s not just volume tomfoolery. The imaging changes dramatically and (IMO) for the better.
DaveVoorhis
Addicted Member
It's a broad topic, and personally I find the in-depth technical discussion and debate far more interesting and useful than questions and feedback.
In other words, there are various subtopics that readers may enjoy in a busy thread and they're not always compatible. Maybe a new thread should have been started, but it doesn't always happen. In that case, it may be most effective to turn off notifications and browse the thread at your leisure.
restorer-john
Addicted Member
Wyn got it right. It wasn't one of Benchmark's finest moments.
E-Stat is also right, and the "wrong" has been acknowledged, but clearly not righted on Benchmark's website.
That's Benchmark's fault.
Stereophile test stuff, they cannot be expected to drill down into the topology of a complicated and extremely high density PSU/Amplifier combination (the boards are stacked and multipin connected) and probably took the manufacturer's blurb at face value. I don't blame Stereophile either.
If Wyn or I were reviewing the amplifiers for Stereophile, they'd be pulled apart on the bench and supply rails would be reported on, along with every other component and nobody would ever buy Stereophile ever again...
E-Stat is also right, and the "wrong" has been acknowledged, but clearly not righted on Benchmark's website.
That's Benchmark's fault.
Stereophile test stuff, they cannot be expected to drill down into the topology of a complicated and extremely high density PSU/Amplifier combination (the boards are stacked and multipin connected) and probably took the manufacturer's blurb at face value. I don't blame Stereophile either.
If Wyn or I were reviewing the amplifiers for Stereophile, they'd be pulled apart on the bench and supply rails would be reported on, along with every other component and nobody would ever buy Stereophile ever again...
mjw21a
Super Member
If differences in cables can't be heard, either a system isn't resolving and transparent enough, or you're simply not able to hear the difference. I've met a few people can't hear the difference between various DAC's etc though were very much audiophiles so no biggie one way or another. Enjoying the music is what its about after all
So far the only piece of equipment I've come across where changing coupling caps makes no difference is my Wavebourn Edelweiss-3. A truly transparent amp, and as the designer claims his design protects against differences in component quality. So while some equipment is so well designed that parts quality makes little to no difference, in my experience most equipment does benefit from better parts.
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nj pheonix
Lunatic Member
I might have these laying around . I'll have to see if I can find them . If so , you're on
nj pheonix
Lunatic Member
I went the whole route on the D2 thread as well. (Well some people were changing PS caps and coupling caps. I never wandered that far.
I did try the bursons (for reference, IIRC, maverick had a standard chip and an upgraded OP amp chip. Off the top of my head, I don't remember which either was but I started with the factory upgrade OP
amps).
Let's set aside the tube buffer stage which I never liked as much as the SS output on it (regardless of the several recommended tubes suggested).
I preferred the factory OP amps to the Bursons.
If I'm not mistaken, there was a third player making discrete component OP amps for these as well. I didn't entertain doing those.
So the Bursons aren't unanimously loved.
.
I did try the bursons (for reference, IIRC, maverick had a standard chip and an upgraded OP amp chip. Off the top of my head, I don't remember which either was but I started with the factory upgrade OP
amps).
Let's set aside the tube buffer stage which I never liked as much as the SS output on it (regardless of the several recommended tubes suggested).
I preferred the factory OP amps to the Bursons.
If I'm not mistaken, there was a third player making discrete component OP amps for these as well. I didn't entertain doing those.
So the Bursons aren't unanimously loved.
.
wyn palmer
Addicted Member
I PM'd you. I also asked if you had made any progress on the MC board build.I might have these laying around . I'll have to see if I can find them . If so , you're on
My first response to this thread about Burson op amps was providing my observations about using them with a Music Hall DAC 25.3. I think they're great.
Then someone feels the need to show us how smart he is, quotes me and then talks about how wonderful his phono preamp is (???). I congratulate him. Then he introduces the canard about "euphonic colorations" and later starts talking about a power amp (???). For some unknown reason, this individual has an uncontrollable knee jerk and finds the need to *correct* me - but never does.
Go figure.
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