C22

[sberger]

C22 will be limited in the number of amplifiers it will be able to drive simultaneously. From the MC2105/2505/2300 and earlier, the input impedance is 200K ohms so no problem there.

Input impedance drops to 100K ohm on MC2205/2125 & MC2200/2120. so it could still drive 2 of those (or one + one of the earlier 200K models) and still be right at 50K ohms (or above) which exactly the minimum impedance the C22 should be used with.

Then for the MC2255/2155 & MC2250/2150 input impedance drops again to 50K ohms so the C22 would only be able to drive just one of those and nothing else. Input impedance drops even further with later Mc amplifiers which would not at all be compatible with the C22.

The C3x series however can be used with any Mc amp of any generation.

The final consideration is repairs which it is almost guaranteed to need - sooner or later. This should be contemplated carefully if the logistics of obtaining reputable tube repair/restoration services is in doubt. On the plus side the C22 is a fairly lightweight unit so should theoretically less problematic to ship. On the negative is the C22's high value which adds a bit of trepidation to the prospect.

Again great info. Thanks.

I think realistically I would want to probably move one of my amps in trade to get the C22. I'm going to try it out with just the 2105 because that seems like the best pairing. In a perfect world, I'd just live with the C22/2105/AR3 coupling and be happy and damn grateful. And that might still be a possibility. But I really like the 2250 and still hope to find another locally some day because I'd like to try a pair of them, and for that I'd need the 34V.

You're right about the maintenance, and this will always be a stumbling block for me with any tube gear. One possible scenario if I decided to throw caution to the wind would be to get the 22, use the 34V in trade, but still have the CR7 which isn't going anywhere, and have that as a backup preamp until something inevitably fails on the 22 and I have to either sell it, or bite the bullet and send it somewhere. I don't want to keep the 34V if I'm not going to use it, so to acquire the 22 I'd probably use it, and the 2250 in trade, and sell off my 3a's as well. But these are just scenarios I'm playing around with in my head and the likelihood at this stage is slim.

 

[captouch]

We desire what we desire, so logic and practicality doesn't always play into it, but I'm with @62caddy in that you really need to have a local resource you trust to work on this as it appears that whatever work might have been done was done awhile ago (or used 20yr old parts). Looking at used prices for C22's, it's expensive enough that I personally wouldn't want to ship it off somewhere. It would have been much nicer if you knew the work was done with new parts very recently, so you'd have peace of mind for a long time.

That being said, since it's an option, definitely give it a test drive and if it gives you magic at a significantly higher level than the C34V to the point that you must have it, that may motivate you to seek out a local tube expert. I do think there are a couple of options in the south bay, though at least one of them is quite expensive based on one quote I received in the past.

To answer your earlier questions, the rule of thumb is that electrolytic caps are reliable for 20-25yrs. In reality, they tend to last longer, but if one goes around this time, it's not surprising. And the can caps are near the yellow, blue, and orange axial caps, but you can only see the underside of them in your pics. But attached is a pic of what they look like from the top if the top cover were removed.

 

[sberger]

We desire what we desire, so logic and practicality doesn't always play into it, but I'm with @62caddy in that you really need to have a local resource you trust to work on this as it appears that whatever work might have been done was done awhile ago (or used 20yr old parts). Looking at used prices for C22's, it's expensive enough that I personally wouldn't want to ship it off somewhere. It would have been much nicer if you knew the work was done with new parts very recently, so you'd have peace of mind for a long time.

That being said, since it's an option, definitely give it a test drive and if it gives you magic at a significantly higher level than the C34V to the point that you must have it, that may motivate you to seek out a local tube expert. I do think there are a couple of options in the south bay, though at least one of them is quite expensive based on one quote I received in the past.

To answer your earlier questions, the rule of thumb is that electrolytic caps are reliable for 20-25yrs. In reality, they tend to last longer, but if one goes around this time, it's not surprising. And the can caps are near the yellow, blue, and orange axial caps, but you can only see the underside of them in your pics. But attached is a pic of what they look like from the top if the top cover were removed.

View attachment 2124314

Thank you sir. All good info and good points.

 

[twiiii]

Unless you are looking for a particular midrange sound that tube pre-amps seem to have I would pass. I have owned both and I will take a C-34 hands down. With the slightest manipulation of the graphic tone controls you can recreate the same sound with better signal to noise and with lower distortion. Bass reproduction below 60 hz is much superior to a C-22 and the highs are just cleaner if your speakers will reproduce the difference and you still have your hearing in tact above 4 KHZ. You wont's have to deal with dirty noisy switches on the C-22 and you have a precision tracking volume control only the latest C=22's have. The steps in the tone controls are to large and the loudness is never right unless you follow the setup instructions properly. Then there are the tube issues you have to deal with. I love having separate record selector and FET switching instead of noisy mechanical connections, too. Then having almost 20 db more signal to noise ratio for line inputs and almost 15 db improvement with the C-34 for the phono inputs is a big plus. If you want tube sound in a modern pre-amp get a C-2200. Audio Classics.

 

[sberger]

Unless you are looking for a particular midrange sound that tube pre-amps seem to have I would pass. I have owned both and I will take a C-34 hands down. With the slightest manipulation of the graphic tone controls you can recreate the same sound with better signal to noise and with lower distortion. Bass reproduction below 60 hz is much superior to a C-22 and the highs are just cleaner if your speakers will reproduce the difference and you still have your hearing in tact above 4 KHZ. You wont's have to deal with dirty noisy switches on the C-22 and you have a precision tracking volume control only the latest C=22's have. The steps in the tone controls are to large and the loudness is never right unless you follow the setup instructions properly. Then there are the tube issues you have to deal with. I love having separate record selector and FET switching instead of noisy mechanical connections, too. Then having almost 20 db more signal to noise ratio for line inputs and almost 15 db improvement with the C-34 for the phono inputs is a big plus. If you want tube sound in a modern pre-amp get a C-2200. Audio Classics.

I hear you and probably will pass. But I'll have a listen first.

 

[audiomaniac2]

I hear you and probably will pass. But I'll have a listen first.

After reading your post I was wondering If you bought it and how much was the price for it.

 

[sberger]

After reading your post I was wondering If you bought it and how much was the price for it.

I did buy it! And I can't mention dollars in this forum, but let's just say somewhere around market price for a restored one, less a bit of discount from a local friend.

No regrets whatsoever. I decided it's in great condition, the friend replaced a couple of tired Tele's in it with strong one's, and if something does go belly up on it, it's small and light enough that I like my odds in shipping it for repair without it getting killed.

 

[audiomaniac2]

I did buy it! And I can't mention dollars in this forum, but let's just say somewhere around market price for a restored one, less a bit of discount from a local friend.

No regrets whatsoever. I decided it's in great condition, the friend replaced a couple of tired Tele's in it with strong one's, and if something does go belly up on it, it's small and light enough that I like my odds in shipping it for repair without it getting killed.

That's awesome, Glad it worked out for you!

 

[analog addict]

So what are your thoughts vs the solid state unit? I am in the process of restoring my own C22...

 

[sberger]

So what are your thoughts vs the solid state unit? I am in the process of restoring my own C22...

Thoughts are that I'm glad I bought it. Had no issues with the 34V, and could live with it as my last pre. But the 22 is just special(as was the 20 that I had before it, and foolishly sold...won't make that mistake again). Matched with either the MC2300 or MC2105 it's got that old school warmth that I fully expected, a fullness and richness that makes it a joy for me to listen to for hours on end. Very musical, as is the 2300, which I think really helps with my JBL 4412 speakers, a recent acquisition. Those are known more for their accuracy and presentation that some say is a little lean, and not terribly musical. As studio monitors, I suppose that's what they're meant to be. But I find they compliment the 22/2300 combo perfectly and haven't been able to get my beloved AR3's in the mix much since I got them.

I look forward to hear about your restoration and the outcome of your 22.