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C2200 versus C1000/T1000?

jmajma

Well-Known Member
Hello,

I'm wondering what could bring this preamp changing if someone did compare? WOULD THE SOUND BE THAT BETTER?

I listen , for the moment, most of the time to CDs (90% of the time) , mostly jazz and pop/rock, sometimes classical; I listen to radio sometimes too. And I know the P1000 has much better spec than T1000, but from experience I know too that better spec don't mean better listening quality.BTW, I love the association tubed C2200/SS 1201s.

In a few words, I'm very hesitant, due to a friend who WANTS to buy my C2200, which I love. Should I make the (very big) plunge? Or should I wait, until I change speakers (which I love too!)?

Too many questions in my little head, I should increase my sports activity until my head is empty, to save my wallet and money!
 
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WOULD THE SOUND BE THAT BETTER?
A quick way to hear what that would sound like (maybe 99%) is to run the MDA1000 straight into the amps and using the MDA as a preamp. :yes:
What did you have in mind for a speaker upgrade?
 
For speaker upgrade I am interested by very different brands as I didn't seriously begin to listen, I want to hear:
1- Wilson Audio WP8.
2- Magnepan , perhaps 3.6 or 20.
3-BW 801D and 800D.
4-maybe Sounlab, but I think they are definately too big and WAF uncompatible.
5-SF Elipsa or ...
6-other suggestions.
 
A quick way to hear what that would sound like (maybe 99%) is to run the MDA1000 straight into the amps and using the MDA as a preamp. :yes:
This is exactly what I was going to recommend. The MDA1000 used as a preamp sounds close to a C1000T, the C1000T is just a tiny improvement over a system with no preamp (MCD1000-MDA1000-MC1201s-B&W802).

I have not heard a SS C1000 but when I replaced my C2200 with a C1000T I was amazed at the improvement. The C1000T added much detail and realism to my system. The biggest improvement was music just sounded more real, with the C1000T I felt like I was in the recording studio with the musicians. :music:

If you don't want all 3 boxes with the C1000 you may want to wait for the C500. The C500 should sound very close to a C1000 for less money.

Victor
 
I am not convinced after some tests I and my wife did: does it only mean that the C2200 is transparent and neutral?Or we don't have the golden ears of my friends Serge and Victor?Or we should wait some day before deciding.

We compared C2200/MCD/MDA1000 versus MCD/MDA1000 using some CDs we know by heart, like the Diana Krall'Live in Paris (we were here the night they recorded!!!). We found there was no difference: we shall do it again in the next days on different CDs, but for the moment, I think the relability and flexibility of the C2200 is a great advantage when you have a tuner and a TT; and you can shape the sound with balance, treble or bass controls.
 
We compared C2200/MCD/MDA1000 versus MCD/MDA1000 using some CDs we know by heart, like the Diana Krall'Live in Paris (we were here the night they recorded!!!). We found there was no difference.
Are you using balanced XLR interconnects from the MDA1000 to your MC1201s? If not see if you can get some for this test.

Victor
 
I am not convinced after some tests I and my wife did: does it only mean that the C2200 is transparent and neutral?Or we don't have the golden ears of my friends Serge and Victor?Or we should wait some day before deciding.
Sounds like I just saved you $17,000 or whatever the price of C1000 is in France. :D
 
I feel pretty good because I have a c2200 on the way!!!! And it wasnt an easy decision ( althought the c1000 never was an option) :D
 
If the C2300 is anything like the C220 in weight and bass and the transparency and depth of the C2200 it will be the pre to buy.
 
Victor,

I'm testing with Cardas Quadlink 5C in XLR;

after the first session,late at night, I did another test 2 hours later, alone in the living rom, kids asleep, ...and I've found the volume positions(C2200 and MDA) which give the same power level and which allow to switch quicker: only the cables to remove.I know there is no auditive memory, the best test would to compare in the same time and not one after the other setup, and if possible in blind test.

In the end, it's not so easy and it seems to be better with MDA/MCD; it was late, and I want to test again, with other CDs than Diana Krall; I think I'll test through my MS300/MDA1000 too .
 
The C2300 is a step between the C2200 and the C1000. Depending on the resolution of your system the C2300 could be the final step.

Thanks,
Ron-C
 
Thank you Ron for your answer, but could you explain what you mean by "resolution"?
I 'll test again tonight the Serge and Victor's option, directly MDA in the 1201s, because this morning , before going at work, I've listened to this setup and I was blown away! Perhaps in the morning ears are not tired or more receptive!
In the other option you're talking, what brings the C2300 vs C2200?
 
Resolution, the lower the distortion and the higher the clarity or transparency of the system, input to speakers, the easier it is to hear the difference in the preamps.
The C2200 is our most popular preamp. The new C2300 builds on this and adds many features and enhancements.

Thank you,
Ron-C
 
Too many questions in my little head, I should increase my sports activity until my head is empty, to save my wallet and money!


Better make it a round of Rugby...that will "knock" some sense into your head as the ideas leave in the scrum.:D
 
I 'll test again tonight the Serge and Victor's option, directly MDA in the 1201s, because this morning , before going at work, I've listened to this setup and I was blown away!
Jmajma, in all honesty, when you start pushing the outer limits of performance, everything in the system has to be optimized and requires careful listening. First, never base your decision on one or even a few CD's/LP's, you have to listen to many different CDs/LP's. Professional reviewers evaluate components for months. What sounds like an improvement on one CD may actually manifest itself as a negative in another, due to differences in recordings and musical content itself, that's why many people jump into buying speakers and gear after a brief audition only to find they are dissatisfied in the long term due to components or speakers being a poor match to each other and personal listening preference.

Second, proper speaker positioning in the room is a must to be able to extract the maximum potential of a particular system to begin with and often new components require a speaker repositioning to benefit from the advantages they offer. When I installed the MCD1000 into my system, right away I noticed the difference in bass as compared to the MCD201. After a week of listening, the deeper bass response of the MCD1000 required me to reposition my speakers once again to sound their best as the new found bass was exciting a room mode that I have not noticed before and I have monitor speakers capable of only upper 30Hz. Often times, especially when dealing with serious high end components, the performance advantage may be very small but in the eyes or "ears" I should say of a critical listener, it makes a huge difference, much like an F1 car that was able to shave a few tenths of a second from each lap due to a tweak in the aerodynamics/down force, meaning a difference between first place and a distant second at the finish.

One suggestion I have for you after looking at the pictures of your great listening room is to pull those speakers out from behind the fireplace further out into the room and spreading them out a little further, you will gain much in the imaging and soundstage depth and width as well as getting better "definition" in the bass although it may sound like you have less bass due to less coupling to the walls and the fireplace itself. Try to create an equilateral triangle if possible and get the measuring tape out, the speakers should be within a few millimeters of each other from the center of the listening position and the speakers. My speakers are within 1/8" from the front and side walls as well as from the listening position, the focus is beyond words. The soundstage extends from one side of the room to the other on certain recordings. Try it sometimes, you will like it. :thmbsp: Whether you can keep them there is probably up to your wife. :D

Getting back to the C1000, I trust Victor's opinion, I have talked to him many times and over the past year and a half I've figured out we have similar listening preferences as well as Victor having many years in the hobby and exposure to different gear, he does setups for a local dealer so he has heard and seen many different gear and rooms. If Victor says the C1000 in the chain is a marginal improvement over the MDA straight into amps, I believe him 100%. That marginal improvement may not be worth it to many and completely worth it to others, that is only up to you to decide. Good luck with your quest! :thmbsp:
 
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