C2200 versus C1000/T1000?

[Victor]

As Serge correctly said, once you get to systems this good, the changes you hear are subtle differences. Once your system gets this good I find any improvement no matter how small exciting. It does take some "critical listening" to hear these differences.

To do some critical listening to hear these differences in an AB test you need to pick out a specific part of the music and concentrate on just that one part. For me I find the easiest things to listen to for this test are cymbals, snare drums and vocal echos. For example on the Diana Krall Live In Paris CD on track 1 the cymbals are well recorded, listen to the tone of that cymbal (does it sound sharp, flat or natural). On the beginning of track 5 listen to the ring of the cymbal (how long is the decay time). On track 2 (50 seconds in) listen to the snare drum played with a brush, listen to the amount of detail there. Compare these small parts of the music and see if you hear any differences.

Now there is the long term listening test. Listen to the system for a few weeks without doing AB tests. Do you find yourself listening to music more or less with the new setup. Often times after listening to a setup for a few weeks that is slightly better, when you go back to the old setup you will hear the difference right away.

I always found the B&W speakers with aluminum dome tweeters to be a little harsh. The C2200 could be doing a good job smoothing out that harshness, and it would not surprise me if you liked your system with the C2200 in it better. Now the B&W diamond tweeters are much smoother and I would expect it to sound much better with the MDA1000 going directly to your amps with the diamond tweeter B&W speakers.

And again as Serge said, if you don't hear any difference great, you just saved yourself $17,000.

 

[PHC1]

The C2300 is a step between the C2200 and the C1000. Depending on the resolution of your system the C2300 could be the final step.

Ron, you have not expressed much enthusiasm for the C500 so far. Is it because it is still ways off and premature to talk about it much? :scratch2:

 

[PHC1]

This is what it takes to get "really" serious about high end audio, a dedicated room with full acoustic treatments and no compromises whatsoever.
(The speakers are Rockport Mira Grand by the way, a very reasonable $30k.) :thmbsp:

 

[jmajma]

Victor and Serge,

I mostly agree with your inputs, especially on certain points: the little harshness of the 802 smoothened by C2200 is absolutely true for example, or the way to do critical listening, or the speaker positionning importance and finally the fact we don't have to judge in a few CD listening sessions, we have to take our time.

For now, I love the way it sounds directly from MDA in 1201; there is a gain in the global transparency, but I don't know if it's a good thing in the long term, because this little "harshness" added could bore me. The width and depth of the musical scene, the imaging, are better; and the extremes (bass and treble) sound so real. I want to let the setup like this for a moment ( a few days) and then come back with the C2200, and I'll know what to do.

That said, I would like to keep my MR85 which is an extraordinary tuner, and I would like to be able to listen to my loved LPs, so I was wondering if there is a way to keep the C2200 ( I love it, yes , Stodnichols) which would be for tuner and TT, and MDA for MCD and MS300? On the C2200, I could use Outputs 1 for analogic, which would go in the RCA/CINCH in the 12021s, and the MDA would go in the XLR f the 1201s? Would it be electrically impossible?

Thank you.

 

[jmajma]

This is what it takes to get "really" serious about high end audio, a dedicated room with full acoustic treatments and no compromises whatsoever.
(The speakers are Rockport Mira Grand by the way, a very reasonable $30k.) :thmbsp:

That's why I'm not getting really serious, all that is for fun, the very first goal to me is the emotion a CD or LP brings, it has to touch me: I'm not the kind of man who listens only to well recorded music; in France , the 2 words "audiophile " and "idiot" exist, and I call these guys "idiophile"!

But I admit that when good music is well recorded, it's a nirvana!

 

[PHC1]

That said, I would like to keep my MR85 which is an extraordinary tuner, and I would like to be able to listen to my loved LPs, so I was wondering if there is a way to keep the C2200 ( I love it, yes , Stodnichols) which would be for tuner and TT, and MDA for MCD and MS300? On the C2200, I could use Outputs 1 for analogic, which would go in the RCA/CINCH in the 12021s, and the MDA would go in the XLR f the 1201s? Would it be electrically impossible?

No, you can't keep both the single ended and balanced plugged into the 1201's. :nono: Accomplishing all of the above mentioned with convinience in mind requires a preamp. Well, it's good to have choices, you have the C2300, C500 and the C1000 to choose from. :thmbsp:

 

[PHC1]

That's why I'm not getting really serious, all that is for fun, the very first goal to me is the emotion a CD or LP brings, it has to touch me: I'm not the kind of man who listens only to well recorded music; in France , the 2 words "audiophile " and "idiot" exist, and I call these guys "idiophile"!

I'll answer that with the following reminder: Even budget gear can bring much musical "emotion" and enjoyment. I've had systems 1/10 the price in my house that were able to keep me listening for hours on end even though they were not as capable as my current gear. If you cross over into the price territory where your components are today, there is already an element of an "audiophile" in you.

 

[jmajma]

For sure, but I try not to become idiophile!

I too had gear of a very very lower price, but I loved music in first. And it's always like this. As I was a student, I had AKAI speakers, and amp and tuner of an unknown brand in the USA (it was french, named BST), but believe me, it had a part of the Mc Intosh look: blue VuMeters and black frontglass! I had a TT Dual and then Thorens, CD didn't exist at that time: the whole system was around 1000 dollars perhaps (end of 70ies). And it made me discover Fleetwood Mac, Rickie Lee Jones, Steve Forbert, Doors, Grateful Dead, Dire Straits............

 

[jmajma]

All well resumed in this Victor's answer to Jesse in another thread. See below.

Victor said:



Since your C1000 is already on the way lets concentrate on what you will gain with a C1000 in your system.

You get a much better remote, in fact you get 2 better remotes.
You get better power control circuits for turning on your system.
You get a great headphone amp.
You get a better more precise volume control, the MDA1000 has 100 full steps and the C1000 has 214 1/2 steps.
You get trim volume control for source volume matching.
You get multiple XLR outputs, so you won't need a XLR splitter for bi-amping.
You get balance control, in over 1/2 of the systems I do setups on a balance control is needed to match speaker volumes.
You get tape and processor loops.
You get analog inputs and a fantastic phono preamp.
You get major cool factor, the C1000 is just beautiful.

Usually when you add all these features you loose a little in sound quality but with the C1000 it will actually sound a little better, that is truly amazing.

Victor