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C500P initial impression

Congratulations Serge, and thanks for the great review !

As tuberoller said, I know now that I don't need a C500, because like him, Alberto and some others, I like the coloration the 220 adds to the signal.
But you're absolutely right : on some CD's, when I listen with the MDA pre direct to the 501's, the sound is really more transparent, clean and clear, and it's better than the 220, if the record has a good mastering. For average records, which are unfortunately the majority, I prefer the 220.

There are preamps for all ears so it's great you found one that does not make you miss the MDA pre.
Looking forward your vynil adventures....

Best wishes
 
C220MC275 said:
Congratulations Serge, and thanks for the great review !

As tuberoller said, I know now that I don't need a C500, because like him, Alberto and some others, I like the coloration the 220 adds to the signal.
But you're absolutely right : on some CD's, when I listen with the MDA pre direct to the 501's, the sound is really more transparent, clean and clear, and it's better than the 220, if the record has a good mastering. For average records, which are unfortunately the majority, I prefer the 220.

There are preamps for all ears so it's great you found one that does not make you miss the MDA pre.
Looking forward your vynil adventures....

Best wishes
Click to expand...

Electrostatic speakers are very revealing. When I had a pair of Martin Logan SL3's, I often wished I had less revealing gear with some lesser quality recordings. I rearranged my system to include the smoothest sounding SS amp I could afford back then (McCormack DNA 0.5) and a lush sounding preamp (Audible Illusions) after which the system became much more tolerable. It's all about synergy. :yes:
 
Congratulations Serge,

I am happy for you with your new addition, sounds like the music fluid like before in your home.

Happy :music:.
 
Congratulations Serge :tresbon:

THX 4 sharing

But...I must confess...I am not really surprised by your findings :D

For me the C1000P remains the jewel in McIntosh's Crown...but pure on audio performance the C500P is its equal :thmbsp:

Jacques
 
PHC1 said:
Thanks Shane, I am looking forward to it. Any further thoughts on your Raven AC? :music:
Click to expand...

The Raven AC-3 is a wonderful neutral table which really takes on the sound of whatever tonearm and cartridge you are using. Zero maintenance after you have installed. In neutral I am talking about top to bottom coherence, not the lean sounding neutral like a clearaudio and such. My VPI HRX for example is tipped in the upper mids/lower treble to sound exciting, but to my ears a little fatiguing.

Having the ability for multiple arms really opens up the world of analog and frankly is addictive - which is a good thing. I am seriously thinking of getting a third arm. One for my " best I can" performance with the dyna XV-1, one for the koetsu rosewood which helps relax some of my bright/lean recordings and a third for the Ortofon SPU which just excels at vocals, jazz etc.

The only con's are -
Raven has no suspension so you will need some sort of good support to ensure subsonic feedback etc does not creep in - this depends a lot on your room and how full range your system is.
- no vacuum hold - I was somewhat paranoid when I bought the raven as I have the VPI with outer ring, but in reality it is not a big deal. I have heard the basis debut and from what I have read in reviews, vacuum hold can make the bass a little tight/light.

I have not heard the raven 2, however my dealer now has the AC-3 and the 2, so I will ask him on how close they are. A friend of mine luvs his raven 2 and all reviews have been positive.

BTW, there is such a thing called tube magic - however pre amps like lamm, VTL and BAT IMO do not have it as they are trying to hard to sound neutral. But Mac SS pre amps seem more tubelike than almost all other SS pre's and they lack the dryness on the top end that most SS pre's have.

have you heard the raven 2 or any other turntable yet. I guess a home demo would be difficult so it is really a leap of faith - like I did.

cheers Shane
 
Shane said:
The Raven AC-3 is a wonderful neutral table which really takes on the sound of whatever tonearm and cartridge you are using. Zero maintenance after you have installed. In neutral I am talking about top to bottom coherence, not the lean sounding neutral like a clearaudio and such. My VPI HRX for example is tipped in the upper mids/lower treble to sound exciting, but to my ears a little fatiguing.

Having the ability for multiple arms really opens up the world of analog and frankly is addictive - which is a good thing. I am seriously thinking of getting a third arm. One for my " best I can" performance with the dyna XV-1, one for the koetsu rosewood which helps relax some of my bright/lean recordings and a third for the Ortofon SPU which just excels at vocals, jazz etc.

The only con's are -
Raven has no suspension so you will need some sort of good support to ensure subsonic feedback etc does not creep in - this depends a lot on your room and how full range your system is.
- no vacuum hold - I was somewhat paranoid when I bought the raven as I have the VPI with outer ring, but in reality it is not a big deal. I have heard the basis debut and from what I have read in reviews, vacuum hold can make the bass a little tight/light.

I have not heard the raven 2, however my dealer now has the AC-3 and the 2, so I will ask him on how close they are. A friend of mine luvs his raven 2 and all reviews have been positive.

BTW, there is such a thing called tube magic - however pre amps like lamm, VTL and BAT IMO do not have it as they are trying to hard to sound neutral. But Mac SS pre amps seem more tubelike than almost all other SS pre's and they lack the dryness on the top end that most SS pre's have.

have you heard the raven 2 or any other turntable yet. I guess a home demo would be difficult so it is really a leap of faith - like I did.

cheers Shane
Click to expand...
Shane, you just confirmed for me exactly what I was after. :yes: Home audition is pretty much out the question but I can take a ride to NYC to hear the Raven. I am planning on auditioning the Allen Perkins Spriral Groove in NJ as well.

Have not decided on a rack/vibration control yet but will obviously need one when the table arrives.


Well, that makes at least a few of us on the same page as far as tubes/SS and McIntosh. :yes:

Thanks for the info. :thmbsp:
 
PHC1 said:
Shane, you just confirmed for me exactly what I was after. :yes: Home audition is pretty much out the question but I can take a ride to NYC to hear the Raven. I am planning on auditioning the Allen Perkins Spriral Groove in NJ as well.

Have not decided on a rack/vibration control yet but will obviously need one when the table arrives.


Well, that makes at least a few of us on the same page as far as tubes/SS and McIntosh. :yes:

Thanks for the info. :thmbsp:
Click to expand...

Serge, if you can afford a Siral Groove, you can afford a Raven AC :D
 
gregswaim said:
How do the Raven TT's compare to the Linn Sondek LP12 SE for sound?
Click to expand...

Hi Greg

Linn's unfairly seem to get a bad rap these days. I have the LP12, cirkus, trampolin, Lingo and Naim ARO arm. It is a wonderful sounding table which still has some of the classic Linn PRAT (upper bass bump). In a smaller less than full range system the Linn excels and is competitive with anything out there. Probably why John Atkinson styill has his as he generally listens casually to smaller monitor type speakers

However when you have closer to a full range system the Linn's deficiances are more obvious. It lacks the power and impact in the deeper bass. When the music is played louder the bass does not grow with the music as such. The music coming from the Linn just sounds a little smaller in scale and less open in soundstaging.

The upper frequencies are not as open and extended as say the raven or HRX. the raven upper frequencies are as smooth as the Linn, however the HRX is a little ragged in comparison to the raven and Linn.

I have not heard the Linn SE - but from reviews it just seems to get more detailed without the bass growing with this increased transparency. I for one have never found the Linn lacking in transparency. It is almost IMO be careful what you wish for.

One thing I will never sell my Linn as I have had it since 2005, but the Raven is the better music maker. It is nice having both thou.

cheers
 
PHC1 said:
I can but I figured if the Raven is not that far behind the difference will buy many LPs. :D
Click to expand...

that is very true, however If you are like most of us sick puppies and you really get into vinyl, you may yearn for that next upgrade quicker than expected. :yes: :no:

besides, you gotta at least spend as much on vinyl as you have spent on you CD playback :scratch2:

seriously thou, you should be happy with either way you go.
 
Shane said:
that is very true, however If you are like most of us sick puppies and you really get into vinyl, you may yearn for that next upgrade quicker than expected. :yes: :no:

besides, you gotta at least spend as much on vinyl as you have spent on you CD playback :scratch2:

seriously thou, you should be happy with either way you go.
Click to expand...

With the price of some vinyl, that shouldn't be too hard. At $50 bucks a pop for some new vinyl that is like a 5:1 ratio. :D Agreed that a table should match the CD playback in quality too.

I know what you are saying though, buy once, buy right. I really would like to make an educated purchase. If the Raven AC or Spriral Groove is really that great, it could be the last turntable I need. :scratch2:

I hate buying "starter" gear, cause it never turns out that way $$$ wise and then having to sell it at a huge loss or have it collect dust somewhere in the house.
 
PHC1 said:
With the price of some vinyl, that shouldn't be too hard. At $50 bucks a pop for some new vinyl that is like a 5:1 ratio. :D Agreed that a table should match the CD playback in quality too.

I know what you are saying though, buy once, buy right. I really would like to make an educated purchase. If the Raven AC or Spriral Groove is really that great, it could be the last turntable I need. :scratch2:

I hate buying "starter" gear, cause it never turns out that way $$$ wise and then having to sell it at a huge loss or have it collect dust somewhere in the house.
Click to expand...

famous last words, but the raven ac is engineered to last a lifetime and it is planned to be my last turntable.
I am sure the spiral groove should be engineered to similar standards.
 
David.......The Technics SL1200 Mk5 has about as much in common with the Raven AC-3 with a Graham Engineering arm as Tee Ball has to the World Series.
 
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