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can turntables really sound that good???

F

fabchef

Well-Known Member
I was thinking about this today, as much as i like my current setup (Sansui
G-2000 receiver, b&w speakers, c.e.c cuho denki TT with new grado black cart.) ...i wonder, can turntables, with their setup, really sound that good? if you play a record,turn off the lights, close your eyes, can it actually seem like the band is playing in front of you? or is this a ghost that we have always been chasing ??? if you do get the "live" sound out of your setup, would you be so kind as to share your setup tips/equipment? thanks
fabs
 
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I'm sure this question/topic has been discussed many times before. I don't think anyone would argue that if you had instrument in the room play a solo and then had a recording of the same instrument that you couldn't detect the difference in a heart beat.

The ghost is chasing the best reproduction of a live recording in my room.
 
Hi guys, well the best i've found up till now is my "tried,tested and true" Dave Brubeck's "take five"...i use this to test out different setups that i have...i think it is an amazing song and find it the closest thing to a live gig....
in terms of speaker placement/distance apart...what would you suggest?..right now i have b&w bookshelf speakers on top of some shelves...
thanks
fabs
 
fabchef said:
in terms of speaker placement/distance apart...what would you suggest?..right now i have b&w bookshelf speakers on top of some shelves...
thanks
fabs
Click to expand...

I would suggest you get the speakers off of the shelves, put them on heavy stands that put the tweeters near ear-level and get the speakers away from the room boundaries. Or at least, play with their proximity to room boundaries, and toe-in of the speakers, to get the best balance of sound. Then sit sort of at one point of a triangle made by you and the speakers and see if you can hear not only left to right placement of things, but where things are from front to back.
 
i'd try those B&W 'bookshelf' speakers on some decent quality spiked stands... bookshelf speakers rarely sound their best on a bookshelf..


place them about 1.5 meters apart..away from room corners..about 1 meter away from rear walls if they are ported...a bit less if not...
if possible place them at an equal distance from any side walls...and have them firing across the width of the room and not down the length...

chose some stands that raises the tweeter approximately at ear height when seated in your listening position...

ensure the distance 'between' the speakers is less than the distance from each speaker to your seated position...

angle them in about 20 - 30 degrees so that a straight line from the front of each speaker crosses just in front of where you sit...


then cue up dave brubeck's 'take 5' mentioned before...and see how they sound..:thmbsp:
 
Isolation, isolation and more isolation. Isolate the turntable from its shelf. Isolate the speakers from their shelves. Isolate everything you have from causing any vibrations to be picked up by your cart. It really does make a noticable difference in the sound reproduction you hear. Balance is improved. Soundstage is improved. It just all sounds better!

As for speaker placement - ear level on the tweets and then a basic triangle -distance from ears = distance between speakers. And as I understand it, the speakers should not be faced (angled) toward you, face them straight forward from the wall like this...

.........______...............______.......




.......................YOU......................

...oh and did I mention isolation?? :yes:
 
fabchef said:
I was thinking about this today, as much as i like my current setup (Sansui
G-2000 receiver, b&w speakers, c.e.c cuho denki TT with new grado black cart.) ...i wonder, can turntables, with their setup, really sound that good? if you play a record,turn off the lights, close your eyes, can it actually seem like the band is playing in front of you? or is this a ghost that we have always been chasing ??? if you do get the "live" sound out of your setup, would you be so kind as to share your setup tips/equipment? thanks
fabs
Click to expand...
Put simply, no, you cannot hope to emulate the sound of a live performance. You can, however get a pleasing sound that enables you to pinpoint where some parts of the sound - instruments, voices etc - are coming from. It's a trick, but it does increase enjoyment, which is what its all about.
 
Yes, I frequently put on a record, relax, close my eyes, and "watch" the band perform before me. It can be extremely realistic at times.

Until I crank up my guitar rig and play along, and then it becomes a little less realistic. But still, it's often really, really great.

I think the biggest difference is in the dynamics. My system is pretty dynamic, but almost all commercially produced records use a fair amount of compression to squash down the dynamics to manageable levels. I find that even the lousy recordings I've made of my own band with a cheap dongle on my iPod can sound surprisingly realistic because more of the original dynamics are preserved.
 
Turntables can sound really good, but I believe it would be difficult to find a system, regardless of source, that sounds exactly like a live performance.

Many of my best listening experiences come from my turntable. Clean records, good TT isolation, cartridge alignment, and proper speaker placement contribute to an ideal listening experience in my case.
 
G'day all, just the other day I had a Ham Radio friend pop in from a distant city, who knows I am a vinyl record and DIY high fidelity fanatic and whilst he was here I played him my favourite track from The Beatles, off the 1967- 1970 compilation, 'Strawberry Fields Forever'.

Despite being a record that I've had for around thirty years and despite having more than a few scratches now, my friend stood there listening with a slightly stunned smile on his face. When it was finished all he could say was, 'Wow that sounded fantastic'. I agreed. :yes: Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
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Hi guys, well i just took a picture of my stereo layout...to give you a better idea of what i'm talking about, and i took it to the left of this computer, so the tweeter level is about at ear level...I'm sitting about 6-8 feet away.
IMG_0009.jpg

system:
b&w speakers (bro. found them in the garbage!!!! and they sound great!)
AC/DC action figues on top of them..hahahh
sansui G200 receiver (thrift store find..15 bucks and is in great shape!)
mitsubishi cd player (my latest thrift store find...$10.00..sounds good!)
kleenex box
cec Chuo Denki turntable

fabs
 
theprofessor said:
Turntables can sound really good, but I believe it would be difficult to find a system, regardless of source, that sounds exactly like a live performance.

Many of my best listening experiences come from my turntable. Clean records, good TT isolation, cartridge alignment, and proper speaker placement contribute to an ideal listening experience in my case.
Click to expand...

I've heard six figure systems and they still didn't sound like a live performance. In some ways, it sounded better....often, depending on where you sit, a concert hall might not sound all that great. In other ways, it sounded worse. Timbre, and that unmistakable lack of compression and openness that live music has, just isn't there. I've never heard a system that sounded exactly like live music but it doesn't matter to me. A lot of recorded music is meant to sound like something else..it's meant to sound like a good recording. And that is still pretty amazing to me. That these little marks on a vinyl disc can turn into a pretty amazing approximation of real life music in my room is just fantastic. I love it! And of all the formats, I love vinyl the most. It just feels and sounds right to me.
 
AR used to put a pair of AR3s on stage along with an orchestra, and the orchestra would get up mid-performance and leave, with AR revealing the music was coming from the AR3a speakers.

I imagine the source was either a high end reel to reel or perhaps an AR XA turntable.

So I think it's possible.

The problem is few of us have rooms that will allow this.

I don't, at least.

But getting the most realistic sound impossibly can is a goal, and I'm doing well.
 
A very great many things must go or be done exactly right to get a near live experience from a sound system. If the speakers seem to disappear when you sit back and close your eyes your system is getting just about as close as it can get.

As far as getting a live performance experience, it would take an extraordinary recording to achieve that. The limits that a record places on noise floor, frequency response and dynamic range all come into play. Each link in the chain adds a bit more noise to the final result. As a result, a really good LP might be able to get you a dynamic range of 70dB to 80dB at best - if those producing the record took the time and trouble to go the extra mile to get that good. Typically it's something less then that. A live performance with peak levels at 105 to 110 dB will have a dynamic range of closer to 90 to 100 dB (when the audience quiets down).

Having said all that the music your system plays can still be vibrant and exciting and completely enjoyable if you set it up right.

Start with speaker positioning. That will have the biggest impact for the smallest investment. Use one recording that has good dynamic range (loud to soft) and extended frequency response (bass to treble). Get that sounding as well as you can out of your speaker setup. Then move on to isolating the turntable from vibrations, set up of your tonearm/cartridge and other items. Work on one part of the sound chain at a time.

Good Luck

Shelly_D
 
JohnVF said:
A lot of recorded music is meant to sound like something else..it's meant to sound like a good recording. And that is still pretty amazing to me.
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Exactly :yes: I rather listen to a very good studio recording than many, if not most, live performances by the same person/band doing the same tunes


thedelihaus said:
AR used to put a pair of AR3s on stage along with an orchestra, and the orchestra would get up mid-performance and leave, with AR revealing the music was coming from the AR3a speakers.

I imagine the source was either a high end reel to reel or perhaps an AR XA turntable.

So I think it's possible.

The problem is few of us have rooms that will allow this.

I don't, at least.

But getting the most realistic sound impossibly can is a goal, and I'm doing well.
Click to expand...


Undoubtedly, that was a Jedi Mind Trick :D
 
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