Canton Quinto 510 Thread

[Bratwurst7s]

OK. Here's another Canton speaker thread, this time the Quinto 510. First some basic data gleaned and translated from HiFi Wiki...

Canton Quinto 510
General Data

• Manufacturer: Canton
• Model: Quinto 510
• Production Years: 1981 (-1985?)
  
• Produced in: Germany
• Color: Black, White, Walnut
• Measurements: 210 x 340 x 220 mm (WxHxD)
• Weight: 6,2 kg
• New Price ca.: 750,- DM (MSRP Pair)

Technical Data

• Cabinet Style: 3-Way, Closed Bookshelf Speaker
  
• Drivers:
  • Woofer: 1x 200 mm (Long-Throw Paper Cone)
  • Midrange: 1x 28 mm (Soft Dome)
  • Tweeter: 1x 20 mm (Soft Dome)
• Load Carrying Ability: 50 / 80 Watt (RMS-/Peak)
• Recommended Amplifier Up to: 60 Watt (RMS)
• For Rooms up to: 35m²
• Sensitivity: - ?dB
• Working Load: 7,0 Watt (86dB, 3m Distance)
• Frequency Range: 36 - 30.000 Hz
• Off-Axis Response: Over 125 Degrees At 12500 Hz
• Crossover Points: 800 / 5.000 Hz
• Impedence: 4 Ohm

Sensitivity isn't shown but the nearly identical follower to the 510, the Karat 100, shows 89.9db SPL and I'm guessing that the Quinto 510 is very similar.

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

The drivers are as follows:
Tweeter: 1087 (Same tweeter as the 520, 530 and at least the early 4 ohm Karat 100)
Midrange: 1086 (Same mid as the 520, 530 and at least the early 4 ohm Karat 100)
Woofer: 3153

Crossover caps are:
1104 = 5.6µF/23v
2381 = 12µF/40v
1102 = 22µF/23v
1101 = 82µF/23v

Coils are:
1156: 0.39mH/1.3ohm
2531: 0.17mH/0.7ohm
3205: 0.17mH/0.8ohm
3062: 1.4mH/0.3ohm (ferrite)
Measurements made with a LCR meter, NOT data from Canton!

Resistors:
0.47 ohm 5% 3w (woofer)
(0.68 ohm 5% 3w [woofer on late version])
47 ohm 5% 8w (midrange)
Both sandcast wire-wound.

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Here a few photos, first, a pics of my pair taken from the 'bay before I bought them,



...and in place on my desktop system with the Yamaha AX-500 that's currently in use.



They're unrestored so far but sound fantastic, they image like crazy.

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

A friend recently bought a pair of 510's in black and asked me to re-cap them and install binding posts. I used Jantzen MKP CrossCaps (5.6µF/400v) on the tweeters, Monacor MKT 12µF/250v on the upper end of the mids, and Mundorf E-Cap elcos on the lower end of the mids & woofers. The binding posts I used are sold under a number of names including Audiovox. The posts were mounted 95mm up from the bottom of the cab, centered with 50mm between them. The new leads to the crossovers are plain 32cm long 1.5mm² OFC.



Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

My friend said that one of the speakers sometimes made some strange noise, like crackling or squeeking. I re-soldered all connections, and tested all of the old caps (all measured high) bit didn't find anything there that was a problem really. What I did notice was that looking at the indentations left in the seal for the woofer and tweeter on that cab I don't believe that this cab was ever completely sealed. Out of the 9 pairs and 2 singles of various Canton's that I've had my hands on now this is the 3rd cab that I've found this on. Carefully repositioning the seals and using a small amount of double-stick tape got them into position and there are no sound issues now, I believe that what he was hearing was air leaking by the seals. So if someone is having bass issues it might pay to pull the drivers and check the seals.

In any case the speakers sound great, I can highly recommend them as small system speakers.



Oh yeah, while I had them apart I mirrored the tweets and mids, the cutouts are the same so there are no issues there.

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

One thing that I forgot to mention.

Being as the cab is exactly the same as the Karat 100 the grills are interchangable between the 2 models. So someone with trashed grills can look for a Karat 100 donor for replacements.

Also the GL 300F uses the same 1087 tweeter, another potential donor for dead tweeters.

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

So, a few new things. Last year when I bought my Quinto 520's they arrived with 2 dead tweeters and 1 dead woofer. I found and bought a single orphan 520 for replacement drivers. It arrived with a dead tweeter. Then I found a single 510 in walnut and at least it had all working drivers. Later I was able to find enough good tweeters to replace all of the bad ones. So at that point I had 3 good unrestored 510's in walnut.

A couple of weeks ago I found another orphan 510 in walnut. So now that I have 2 pairs of working 510's I decided that it was time to start restoring them and rotate them through my PC system. That way I never have to go without music in my hobby room.

For starters, since it took something like 8 to 10 hours to hand sand each box with my 520's this time I'm lightly starting with my orbital sander to get through most of the laquer and then finishing by hand. That has cut the time down to about 2 hours per box. The fronts and backs are still being done completely by hand as it would be too easy to screw them up with the electric sander. Then, as is now standard for me, the cabinets get 2 thin coats of Osmo Hardwax Oil. So far 2 cabinets are finished with refinishing.



Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

I realize now that I left out a few details earlier (with the black 510's) when describing mounting the new binding posts.

The posts are 7mm across the flats and 8mm dia across the threaded portion of the post. So I drilled 7mm holes in the cab and used a 10mm countersink (to accept the plastic bushings). Then a small round file was used to open up the holes side-to-side to accept the posts. With some very light work the posts fit very snug and can't rotate. When installing I used a small amount of general purpose rubber cement under the bushings and washers before tightening the nuts to insure that the cabs are sealed. A 12mm wrench fits the nuts.



Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

As with the other boxes that I've done that came originally with spring clip connectors I haven't been cutting off the original wires inside the box but rather have added some shrink-wrap tubing to the ends and am leaving them in place.



More pics later as I make progress...
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

I've been working on all 4 of the walnut cabs and today I finally finished up these little wonders. Under the lacquer that 35yo veneer was dry dry dry and soaked up the Osmo hardwax oil like a sponge. Also here's a pic of the bore guide that I use for the binding post holes.



Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Here they are all finished. I had a total of 5 grills and 3 Canton logos to choose from. The best 2 grills and the logos went on the 2 speakers on the left that will be a gift to a friend at work to celebrate his first child coming into the world. He'll be using a re-capped Yamaha A-520 to drive them and I'll be using my AX-500.



Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

And the back side. The light isn't so good today and the boxes look a different color depending on the angle but in person they turned out wonderful.

I'm listening to my pair right now as I write this, War - "The World Is A Ghetto". They sounded pretty darn good before re-capping but now they are at a different level. Breath taking clarity with some fansasticly tight bass. I think that they will be with me now 'till death do us part.



Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Some extra photos of re-capped crossovers:



Cheers,
James

 

[IceLord]

Hi James!

Firstly I want to say your job's great, congrats! those Quintos look really impressive.

Secondly, I must appologize for refloating a so old post, but I'm very interested on it.

I'm from Spain and I'm looking for a pair of 510 (like yours) to make them a kind of restoration and modding job (I need them to be white for wife's stuff reasons). My goal is to upgrade the musical performance of my current set (KEF KHT 2005.2... good enough for cinema, but a bit poor at music, IMHO).

I'm able to find some good units here for around 100€ (pair), but since these items are about 30-40 years old and the cone is paperboard.......... I'm a bit wooried about buying a pretty paperweight instead of a good speaker, so I have some questions for you.

Re-capping is a must? I mean, caps on this speakers are something mandatoryly to be replaced? how could I know if I must do it or not? is there a easy way to know it (I'm not an electrician nor electronic expert at all and I have limited technical tools)?

Could you, please, post links to the items you buyed to replace original ones? would you mind to post the money you invest on this parts (costs for each piece)?

Thanks in advance and, again, great job!

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Hi IceLord, and welcome to Audiokarma.

I still listen to those 510's regularly, in fact they are sitting on my desk right in front of me right now.

I have never had a single problem with the paper cones in the woofers, the material isn't something that I worry about.

Quinto's in white don't show up very regularly here. If you are having trouble finding the 510 in white you might also consider looking at Karat 100's. They have the same cabinets and are basically a "product improved" Quinto 510. They have different woofers of the same size as the 510 (tweeters and mids are the same) and have revised crossover points. The first series of the Karat 100's have the same type of spring-clip connectors on the back but they are revised from the Quinto's and accept larger wire sizes. The second series have real screw-cap binding posts.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/canton-karat-100.749073/

As far as the caps are concerned, I have yet to have any that are outright bad in any Canton that I have had or worked on. But many of them have had caps that have drifted in value, sometimes a lot, which does shift the crossover points. I consider them an important maintenance issue and do always replace them. But it's not like you won't be able to use the speakers if you don't replace the caps as long as they are working.

I test the old caps after removing them mainly out of interest but once they are out I will never put a 40 year old cap back in the crossover. Note than in my opinion re-soldering all of the connections IS mandatory if you want the speakers to keep performing for many years. Do this even if you decide not to re-cap.

HiFi Collective is where I've been going to more and more to buy stuff for crossovers. They have a very large selection, prices are reasonable.

For the tweeter caps I always use film, mostly Jantzen MKP but lately I've also been using Mundorf a lot. They are a bit more expensive but I like them.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/001-0254-5-6uF-400v-jantzen-cross-cap.html
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/mkp300-56uf-400v-mcap-polypropylene-capacitor-p-8529.html

For the smaller value mid caps I've also been using film. The Jantzen MKP are better quality than their MKT but larger and more expensive. If you chose an electrolytic for the 12µF note that Mundorf un-etched (smooth)(my favorite) doesn't make them in that value. There is a link down below for Jantzen bi-polar electrolytics.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/content/001-0266-12uf-400vdc-jantzen-cross-cap-capacitor
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/ca...-mkt-metallized-polyester-film-capacitor.html

For the 22µF and 82µF I use Mundorf. Jantzen is a less expensive alternate. I prefer to use "un-etched/smooth (Glatt)" caps but note that they are larger and more expensive than etched ("Raw") types.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/ecap70130-22uf-70vdc-mundorf-ecap-electrolytic-p-2414.html
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/ecap50040-82uf-50vdc-mundorf-ecap-electrolytic-p-2419.html

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_463.html

They also have good versions of the binding posts that I like:
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/cmc858lg-gold-plated-long-speaker-terminals-p-6395.html

I hope that you find what you are looking for, these are some great sounding speakers.
Cheers,
James

 

[IceLord]

Wow! thanks a lot. You're very kind.

So, if I understood properly... you advise to go for a Karat 100, instead of Quinto 510, that's it? they're newer and improved over the Quinto's. Is there a significant difference in terms of sound?

Since re-soldering is a must (and I really apreciate your experience) I need to find some already re-soldered units .

I can manage a color tunning (working with wood and painting is not a problem) but I don't feel confident enough to do a re-soldering job (I have no tools nor experience on that).

Really really thankfull for your help. I will move forward to find some Karat's 100 in good shape, re-soldered, no matter the color they have.

 

[Moostapha]

One more happy new owner here. Occasional poster here, less than occasional reader.
Just got myself a pair of Quinto 510s to couple with my Leak Delta 30
And I was very happy until I found a pair of Canton Select 80 for my gf, which seemed to be the exact same speakers judging by the pictures, but then when they turned up I realised they`re a bit smaller, the cabinet doesnt have two little holes on the back - wonder if that makes a difference, or what they`re even there for? - and I think the tweeter and the mid are different too - visually they`re exactly the same, but there`s two little cables going from the frame to the cone on each of them.
The only mention of Select series I found on German forums was that it`s probably speakers they made of leftovers of some old series when a new series was already introduced.

Now, it`s all fun and games and pure curiosity, of course, except for one tiny detail - they sound almost exactly the same, BUT the Select has a bit more definition in the low end - the amount of low end appears to be the same, but the transients of kick drum are much easier to hear on the Select - or the attack of a double bass. And those are the things I`m very attached to. I love me a punchy drum, and punchy drum is what I love me the most.
And now I`m left here thinking if that could the slightly smaller cab of the Select (appears unlikely), the two holes I have on the back of the Quinto (ditto), just generally different character of the speakers (I dont want to believe that for obvious reasons), or maybe I need to recap mine? We both, obviously, have no previous history for our speakers.

I`m attaching a picture of those two side to side for y`all to see - apologies for the quality.
If you see those Select on sale somewhere - I recommend them wholeheartedly.
If you have any advice for me - I`d be grateful.

 

[Bratwurst7s]

I'm not familiar with the Select 80, never even heard of it. But the 2 little holes in the back of the 510's aren't ports. They are openings for picture hanger type hooks to be used to mount the speakers on walls etc. The holes don't go all the way through and the cabinets are closed acoustic suspension type.

Welcome to the Canton lovers club.

Cheers,
James

 

[Moostapha]

They seem to be not the only odd Canton I found here in Romania - same shop has a pair of Canton Classic 851 which look pretty much identical to Quinto 510s but with a 4-screw mount for a woofer.

Thanks for the tip re holes.
Just checked my crossovers and they still have the brave old West German caps, so I'll do a recap and will see if that fixes it.

Cheers and thank you

 

[Bratwurst7s]

I think that those Classic series used steel woofer baskets from or similar to those in the old LE series rather than the more stable aluminum baskets the later series used. They show up on ebay here also from time to time.

James