Carver 4000t, M-1.5t, TX-11a $950?

[KeithD]

Local shop has these three. They are actually priced individually:

4000t pre-amp: $500
M-1.5t amp: $300
TX-11a tuner: $150

I am mostly a Sansui person, and don't know much about Carver gear. Did some reading about them, and the pre-amp claims sound interesting. The theory on the amp does too, and it seems like a well-regarded tuner. Not sure if I should make the plunge, if the price is good/bad/reasonable. I've bought from them before and that will negotiate a price. Seems like they look at e-bay sold prices to set their asking prices. I don't need another system, just wondering if this gear is interesting enough and price good enough to take try at it. I do really like the Sansui sound. How would these compare?

 

[sanjib]

Keith
Although I never heard Carver, IMO after Sansui the way up is in the path of Luxman, Accuphase, Mcintosh.

 

[KeithD]

Thanks for the input. Have read more on the pre-amp with "sonic holography" - is this more of a marketing gimmick? I can see how it will sound different, but not sure about "better" as the Carver literature claims.

The Amp makes me a bit nervous since its design is so different from everyone else.

Thanks for the input on the tuner. I've read in a few other spots it's supposed to be a better tuner, but I have no idea. If I were to get it, it would mostly be to match the rest of the components.

 

[Oerets]

I have had all three, key word here is had.

The Preamp is way over rated IMHO and having had a few that were problematic over the years. May be a part of this also.

The amplifier seemed to be hard to find a sweet spot on low volumes. Could be the speakers I was using. Forget now what were used. Also IIRC the amplifier may need the grounding wire or some mod for low level hum.

The Tuner is pretty good again IIRC.

Now I do like other Carver units and still have a 500T and a couple M200T's that I really like.

 

[KeithD]

I have had all three, key word here is had.

The Preamp is way over rated IMHO and having had a few that were problematic over the years. May be a part of this also.

The amplifier seemed to be hard to find a sweet spot on low volumes. Could be the speakers I was using.

Thanks, that's very helpful. I was reading the long descriptions in the catalogs from the time (HiFi Engine). They start off with a lot of logical observations, but then it kind of falls flat. I thought, yeah that could be a problem with normal stereos, but the Carver solution is not very convincing.

Also IIRC the amplifier may need the grounding wire or some mod for low level hum.

I've read that in many threads. Seems the hum issue is common.

I'd only be interested in the tuner alone if it is better than my Sansui TU-9900.

 

[EastPoint]

I see a lot of nonworking Carver gear and I personally would pass on those at virtually any price.

 

[sKiZo]

Mostly a Sui guy for decades, but I've somehow or other turned into a Carver fan. Currently running a C4000 pre with the CT Seven tuner, and quite happy with what I'm hearing. The pre drives a DIY tube amp, and the C4000 (unlike the "T") has built in "ambiance amps" for phased rear channels.

The C4000 series is Carver's swiss army knife of pre's. Always been a fan of holography (properly set up of course ... RTFM!). The expansion is at least as good as my DBX 3bx overall, and there's a whole bunch of other filters available. Used conservatively, these features all enhance the overall depth and provide room filling sound even at lower levels. That said, not a fan of "correlation" for most material, but that along with some tweaks on the time delay can really bring out the best in a lot of jazz if that's yer thang.

Short version, the C4000 series is not for the faint of heart, but if you're a die hard tweaker like me, it's hard to beat. This setup is replacing a Sansui QRX 9001 for comparison. Not familiar with thee M1 series amps, but tuner is similar to mine, and no complaints on signal quality and reception with a decent antenna attached.

Oh. Have the shop do a good cleanup and make sure all the switches work properly. Keep in mind these things are 40 years old, with LOTS of switches to cause problems if they're dirty. Power button on mine went wonky, but I "fixed" that by replacing it with a remote switch.

 

[RickB]

Been there, done that, I'd pass.

 

[jmchrislip]

You either love or hate Carver amps. There doesn't seem to be a middle opinion. I personally love my M400a amp. Had it rebuilt by Rolland in Oregon and sounds so sweet.

 

[E2]

You either love or hate Carver amps. There doesn't seem to be a middle opinion. I personally love my M400a amp. Had it rebuilt by Rolland in Oregon and sounds so sweet.

Yep, not much middle ground.

Sunfire was another brand by Carver.

 

[KeithD]

I see a lot of nonworking Carver gear and I personally would pass on those at virtually any price.

Thanks Ben, I know you see a lot of gear, so that's helpful.

@sKiZo , Wow, that's quite a statement moving from at QRX-9001 to the Carver. I noticed in the description of the 4000t pre-amp that does it's own version of quad synthesis. What are the differences you are hearing between Sansui and the Carver? What is the Carver doing better than the 9001? I'd love to hear your impressions, as I've been pretty happy with Sansui quad synthesis.

 

[a_retent]

Local shop has these three. They are actually priced individually:

4000t pre-amp: $500
M-1.5t amp: $300
TX-11a tuner: $150

...Did some reading about them, and the pre-amp claims sound interesting. The theory on the amp does too, and it seems like a well-regarded tuner.
...I don't need another system, just wondering if this gear is interesting enough and price good enough to take try at it. I do really like the Sansui sound. How would these compare?

I currently own all three of these units in my garage setup, in addition I also have an m400 and had an m400t. The 4000t was bought to fill a spot that was once occupied by a C4000, can't say the sound is any better or more "accurate", my Crown SL-2 preamp has a better sound quality at $100 less. The phono stage is allegedly better in the 4000t but I don't use mine, therefore I believe there are better preamps out there. The tx11a is a good tuner if FM listening is all your looking for and that price seems fair.

Now, when it comes to the m1.5/m1.5t it is no Luxman, Accuphase, Mcintosh or Audio Research but it is a formidable amp and performs really well when driven by a good preamp. Keep in mine that unit is probably 40+ years old and is in need of a recapping but power supply updates and new power caps are available and reasonable in price if you can do your own soldering. I've done three of them and it is so easy to do, when done it's possible to get another 20 years of service. It is a very cool running amp even when pushing the 350wrms envelope. I will tell you at that level of output do not expect finesse, detail or accuracy but you will certainly piss off your nieghbors...ask me how I know.

BTW of the handful of m1.5s my kid and I have owned we've never encountered a hum problem and not all of Carver's gear was junk. However, I had nothing but problems with my DTL-100 CD player.

My opinion as a long time owner is the 4000t asking price is too high and the sound output can be bested by other units at that price. That tx11a tuner is priced well especially if not cosmetically challenged and last but not least, the m1.5 at that price is something I would jump on without a second thought.

Just my $.02 aaaannd YMMV.

 

[KeithD]

I currently own all three of these units in my garage setup, in addition I also have an m400 and had an m400t. The 4000t was bought to fill a spot that was once occupied by a C4000, can't say the sound is any better or more "accurate", my Crown SL-2 preamp has a better sound quality at $100 less. The phono stage is allegedly better in the 4000t but I don't use mine, therefore I believe there are better preamps out there. The tx11a is a good tuner if FM listening is all your looking for and that price seems fair.

Now, when it comes to the m1.5/m1.5t it is no Luxman, Accuphase, Mcintosh or Audio Research but it is a formidable amp and performs really well when driven by a good preamp. Keep in mine that unit is probably 40+ years old and is in need of a recapping but power supply updates and new power caps are available and reasonable in price if you can do your own soldering. I've done three of them and it is so easy to do, when done it's possible to get another 20 years of service. It is a very cool running amp even when pushing the 350wrms envelope. I will tell you at that level of output do not expect finesse, detail or accuracy but you will certainly piss off your nieghbors...ask me how I know.

BTW of the handful of m1.5s my kid and I have owned we've never encountered a hum problem and not all of Carver's gear was junk. However, I had nothing but problems with my DTL-100 CD player.

My opinion as a long time owner is the 4000t asking price is too high and the sound output can be bested by other units at that price. That tx11a tuner is priced well especially if not cosmetically challenged and last but not least, the m1.5 at that price is something I would jump on without a second thought.

Just my $.02 aaaannd YMMV.

Thanks for that experienced reply. The tuner is interesting, but I wonder if it would be better than my Sansui TU-9900, or an Onkyo T-4015 Quartz lock tuner I have? In the Tuner "shootouts" on the Tuner Information Center site, the TX-11b faired poorly, ranking 52nd out of 84. On that site, the TX-11b is described as the best version of the TX-11. Of course, those are all opinions, and as you said, YMMV!

All gear prices are negotiable at that (record) shop, in my experience, so I could probably get the tuner price down to $120 or maybe $100 if I'm lucky. Don't have a need for more gear just for the sake of having it. Prices are a bit steep on the pre-amp and amp just to "try" them for my tastes.

 

[KiM3Ce]

There are Carver TX-11 tuners on the market floating around $100 and less; the tuner market is weak. I've never owned the Sansui-9900 or the Carver but both have their fans. I'd probably keep the Sansui and flip the Carver but your mileage may vary.

 

[Lazarus Long]

I was able to get $450 for the amp and (different)preamp on ebay. The amp had some transformer hum. and the preamp had a button that had popped out of position. Honestly, for the price, I would chase something else. Carver isn't known for durability.

 

[silvernutsaq]

I've owned several pieces of Carver gear and they are quite good when working properly. I still have a M-0.5t, M-4.0t, and I really like my TX-11a tuner, which is currently the only piece of Carver I have hooked up. You could forgo the 4000t and get a C1 preamp for about half the price, then have it recapped properly.

As for a comparison against Sansui, my C1, M1.5t, TFM-35 units all sounded much better than my AU-717 and AU-5900, but my AU-x701 (Alpha series) and CA-2000/BA-5000 tops the Carver gear in sound presentation.