• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Chinese And Soviet Tubes

I purchased last year a Chinese Tube Preamp (Ming-Da). It is excellent as far as build quality and sound go. Obviously, it came with all Chinese tubes: 1x6n6, 2x6n3, 1x12AX7, and 1x5687. This sounded very good, but it didn't really have the spark that I remembered from the tube amps I used to pillage in the seventies from the garbage, fix up and connect to speakers. So I started tube rolling.

By checking this forum and other sources, I discovered that the single biggest difference would be swapping the 6n3 tubes with Western Electric 396A used old stock. This made a huge improvement in sound--wider-appearing soundstage and very nice tight bass, though still less bass than I like.

Then I added a Telefunken used old stock 12AX7. It sounded a little more "technical" (only way I could describe it), but I liked it more than the chinese one.

I swapped out the original chinese 5687 with a Tung Sol. This didn't seem to make much of a difference, but I kept it in.

Now this is where things start to get really interesting, and particular to this thread on Soviet vs. Chinese tubes: Two months after receiving my amp and it working fine and as above being tube-rolled, it started blowing a fuse immediately after being turned on. I tried putting in all the original tubes, etc. but nothing worked. As it turned out, the only tube I had not changed was the original Chinese 6n6. I brought that to a local tube shop off Canal in Chinatown (I'm in Manhattan, Lower East Side) and they told me it was not testing correctly (whatever that means). I asked how long to order one from China and the answer was about a month.

That's when I went online (eBay). I found a guy selling 6H6p Soviet tubes, mixed, from the 70's & 80's, new/used old stock. 10 for $20 plus $10 shipping. I figured the worst that can happen is I lose $30 bucks. At the same time, one of my colleagues who is from Russia, said is daughter-in-law was going to be travelling there, so he'd ask her to look for me as well.

Finally, the Soviet tubes arrive (from the eBay seller) after only 1.5 weeks, I hesitantly popped one into place, and I have to say that I was simply stunned by the difference from before. I listened to Coltrane, which was the last thing played on my preamp before the tube problem. Music just seemed to open up like a fine wine after it breathed for an hour. The output seemed louder by just a slight amount (I had to turn down the amp by a tad for the same sound level as before). This one Soviet tube alone made as much difference as the UOS 396As had done previously. I was very happy.

Now, 2 months later, my colleague's son gave him the other 6H6p that he had asked about for me, and I had also mentioned that if he saw them, I wouldn't mind having a set of 6H3p also (in case my 396A die and I can't replace them for less than $50!).

Just to try them out, I popped the Soviet 6H3p in place of the Western Electric, and it was an even bigger positive difference: now I got a definite kick and tap on the drum kits that wasn't there before (unless I made it very loud), and the bass was punchier and heavier than before, with no muddiness. And on top of that, the cymbals and hi-hats were more distinct, as was the sound of fingers on bass/guitar strings. And best of all, when I put Coltrane back on, the sax never sounded better.

In short, I really really like my Soviet tubes, and I might try to replace all of them with old stock soviet--though I don't know what would be available for the 5687 (I couldn't find a direct Soviet replacement, yet). I do have a new Sovtek 12ax7lps, but it's not much different than the telefunken, surprisingly, and just a little less warm.

Well, that's my story, FWIW!
Dave
 
The 6P3S-E (6L6GC/5881 sub) sounds amazing, and is available on ebay for about $6.00 each. Make sure you get the "E" version with the coin base, not the other non "E" version with the full black base, they aren't nearly as good.

I have to ask...

The 6P3S-E (coin based) is the tube that has been sold as the Sovtek 5881 for 10-15 years or more. The descriptions of the Sovtek 5881 have been less than kind to say the least (other than it's durability, it's really tough). "Bleached out", blah, no character, etc., all have been applied to this tube.

Now the tube is being sold under the original number and now its wonderful.

Can someone explain why? Thanks...
 
aaahhhh. . . . . . new old stock. . . . you will pay big time. . . . . I, however am a cheapskate :D

I like UOS. . .USED old stock. . .. . it's more hit & miss, but if you start hunting down complete consoles and other old tube equipment to fill my needs.


granted, there have been many dogs along the way for 'buy the whole cow and see whatcha got', but thats half the fun :yes:



NOTE TO SELF - CRAP - I'm GIVING MY SECRETS AWAY ! ! ! !

I look at it like buying a scratch off lottery ticket!
 
><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯ `· .¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>‏

I run (Russian) Sovtek and Svetlana 6N13S (ECC230) (6AS7G) power tubes from the mid sixties in my Atma-Sphere OTL amps. It's ironic, cold war electronics gear in current day Hifi. I basically would not think of using current day Chinese or Russian signal tubes such as 12AX7 or 6DJ8 in my front-end though. As others have commented and from experience, there cheap, noisy, and sonically inferior to so many NOS possibilities. Save your pennies.

I say use Russian tubes: MAKE LOVE (and music), NOT WAR! :yes:



Happy Listening! :beatnik:
 
I basically would not think of using current day Chinese or Russian signal tubes such as 12AX7 or 6DJ8 in my front-end though. As others have commented and from experience, there cheap, noisy, and sonically inferior to so many NOS possibilities. Save your pennies.

Some are not so good, others are superb. To lump them in one group and say they are all no good is not an accurate portrayal of the current crop of Russian tubes. Sweeping generalizations are not in order here.

12AX7WXT = sucks

12AY7 EH = OUTSTANDING


Both are current production Russian tubes. It's no more right to say all Russian tubes are outstanding because some are, than to say they are all "cheap, noisy, and sonically inferior" because some are.

The NOS/UOS supplies are nearly exhausted in many numbers. Like it or not, many people will have no choice but to use current production - as has happened with power tubes. If you haven't heard some of the latest tubes don't make all encompassing judgments. There are people who post on this very forum that (GASP!) use and like current Russian small signal tubes! :yes:
 
Well it looks the same.

I have to ask...

The 6P3S-E (coin based) is the tube that has been sold as the Sovtek 5881 for 10-15 years or more. The descriptions of the Sovtek 5881 have been less than kind to say the least (other than it's durability, it's really tough). "Bleached out", blah, no character, etc., all have been applied to this tube.

Now the tube is being sold under the original number and now its wonderful.

Can someone explain why? Thanks...

Wish I could answer that definitively, but not so sure it is the same, certainly looks similar, but who knows. Every tube I've used has been a 1970s vintage tube, maybe there's a difference in cathode coatings or plate materials. Who knows?

There is so little information out there about the evolution of Soviet era tubes, it's hard to tell. The Soviets were so secret about everything they did, no telling if we'll ever find out.

The only application I've used these particular tubes in was guitar amps, and they were MUCH better than any 6L6 that was in them. In one amp, they had the recent Russian 5881s (Ruby tubes or something like that, don't exactly remember), and we replaced them with the 6P3S-Es. Yeah, they looked similar, but I didn't really take the time to closely examine them, but BIG difference in sound. It was especially evident when they used an acoustic guitar with a pickup, much richer, lots more harmonics. Others have used them in HiFi apps. and loved them too. In short, they may look the same, but they do sound different.

twystd
 
><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯ `· .¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>‏

Some are not so good, others are superb. To lump them in one group and say they are all no good is not an accurate portrayal of the current crop of Russian tubes. Sweeping generalizations are not in order here.

12AX7WXT = sucks

12AY7 EH = OUTSTANDING


Both are current production Russian tubes. It's no more right to say all Russian tubes are outstanding because some are, than to say they are all "cheap, noisy, and sonically inferior" because some are.

The NOS/UOS supplies are nearly exhausted in many numbers. Like it or not, many people will have no choice but to use current production - as has happened with power tubes. If you haven't heard some of the latest tubes don't make all encompassing judgments. There are people who post on this very forum that (GASP!) use and like current Russian small signal tubes! :yes:

Your right, I could have been less vague and more P.C. let me see if I can clarify...

IMHO I have only tried 12ax7LP and WB/E83CCS and 6922 current day Sovtek in my Aesthetix pre and phono gear (hand selected by Jim White) and although I found them to be quite price conscious, thrifty, if you will... I was not able to stomach their blasphemous liberal portrail of my beloved music. Furthermore I found the sputtering and spattering sidebars, if you will, to be most distasteful and distracting. They sounded brittle, edgy, were devoid of nuance and could not carry a sweet tune for the life of them. I may as well have been listening to CD’s. IMHO they are not worthy of the vacuous space that they reside in. Yet this is only my observations and someone may love these things which I must not be able to comprehend. Enjoy

Sincerely, I mean only fun, no personal offense, except maybe to the valves in reference.:yes:

Happy Listening! :beatnik:
 
Back
Top Bottom