Choosing speakers

[Poofables]

Hello all!

This is my first post on AK, but I have been reading through hundreds of threads over the past two weeks.

I have been into vintage audio since I was a kid. Mostly because it's all I could afford or would come by things for free here and there. Recently, I stared paying more attention the the equipment I have and decided I finally need to actually purchase a set of speakers to go with the rest of my set up. A decent set of speakers seem to be the only thing that has alluded me all of these years, and I guess I'll just have to track some down.

That gives me the glorious burden of choice.

Here is what I currently have:

Turntable:
Kenwood KD-500
Grace G-707 arm
Sonus Blue needle

Receiver:
Sansui 9090db

Headphones:
Denon AH-D2000


I listen to literally all types of music and have several hundred records ranging from older stuff I got from my parents and relatives to current production stuff. I know that no speaker will do it all and will sound perfect with every type of music, but I really love my Denon headphones. I have not found anything that does not sound great on them. I hope that helps as a point of reference for what my ears like. I also really love to feel my music, and I love when it sounds full and clean.

Browsing Craiglist and this forum, I have come up with a few contenders for my new speakers. I would love to hear the thoughts of those of you who have listened to these speakers before and am open to new suggestions. These speakers will be used for music only.

Polk Monitor 10b: These are my front runners. A friend has a pair of monitor 5's that I have always LOVED. My listening room is about 35' x 25', so I think the 10's are a better choice for me. The larger speaker should also be a little juicer at the bottom end. $375 with stands.

Epicure Model 2: They just look absolutely awesome. Reviews have been favorable. $350

Dyanco A25: Best selling speaker of all time. I am worried that these might be too "old" sounding for newer music and my not have as accurate of sound reproduction as I may like. $225

Infinity 3500: Look decent, can't find much information on them. Recently got new foam. $195

Advent 5012/0: Best of the Jensen era Advents. Recently reformed EPI silk dome tweeters. $170

All of these are currently available locally. I think that the $375 of the Polks is about as much as I could stand to spend on these. I open to other options and suggestions. I have less than $10 invested in this setup so far other than the Denon's, so I was originally hoping to find another steal at a garage sale, but I'm not sure that will happen soon.

Thank you for you input! Looking forward to may great discussions on this forum in the future.

 

[bryblob]

`I agree, those are all highly priced but are all good speakers, I would go for monitor 10's or 7's but that's my bias.

 

[Poofables]

Are there any good places to look other than Craigslist and Ebay? Those seemed to be kind of the going rates on both of those from what I could see.

 

[Archguy]

Try https://www.hifishark.com/

It's pretty much a compendium of major audio selling sites.

ETA: If I were going to get modestly-priced Polk speakers, I'd look for the RTiA1 and RTiA3 models. They have amazed me with their precision and richness of sound, and (to my ears anyway) notably improve upon the Polk speakers of yore. You can find great deals on them either open-box or used, and (if you care about this sort of thing) the cherry veneers are genuine.

ETA2: However, so long as you're adventurous enough to deal with possible repair work, I really like vintage Infinity speakers. The model you mention looks interesting, though older than I'd try for. I recently picked up some Infinity Kappa 6.1 Series II towers (in oak) which date from the late 90s (they have been refurbished) and they are really impressive.

Thread from last year:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/infinity-kappa-6-1-series-ii.706873/

Mine have the front ports like these (following). Someone else'll have to explain the different versions.

 

[toxcrusadr]

You can always offer less than the seller is asking. If you're polite about it, they should not get offended and they can always say no. But many sellers expect to have to dicker a bit.

 

[Rex81]

My choice out of those would be the Monitor 10B but I agree, that price is ridiculous. They usually sell for $150, 200 tops. And your room is huge. You should be looking at bigger speakers. If you liked your friend's Monitor 5, keep an eye out for a better priced pair of Monitor 10, or better yet, RTA 12. I'd suggest some SDAs, but your receiver may not have enough current to power them properly.

I like the suggestion of the Infinity Kappa 6.1. Other nice Infinities in this general budget are the Reference Four and Reference Five. Crescendo 3007 and 3008. RS 5000, or 6000. Column II. Might be able to find some RS III for a good price.

You would also like Boston A100, A150 or A200.

All of these have the sound you're looking for if you like the Denon D2000. Nice full sounding, yet detailed sound.

 

[Rex81]

Just did a little research on the Infinity 3500. I knew very little about this model. However, if they have the original drivers and they're recently refoamed, this may be pretty decent speakers. There are a few reviews out there saying they're very full sounding and built quite well. For that price, you'd be in good shape.

 

[Old Guy8]

Maybe I missed it, but have you heard any of these speakers? Pardon, if what I mention is old news to you.
If you spend much time on this site, will find avid fans of very different sounding speakers. Personnally, I would not pay market value for speakers I have not experienced, or atleast a close family member. If really cheap price that's different.
What speaker models and brands, that you have heard, have you liked? Might help members recommend in that similar voicing speakers.
I've never heard those Denon phones. I think phone experience is so different to speakers,IMO. I have not heard any of the models you listed. I have New Large Advents that I have stacked. I have ADS and Cantons that are more detailed than my Advents without being fatiguing. Depends on what you like. Good hunting.

 

[Poofables]

Thanks for all the great info so far!

Seems like there are a ton of Infinity's to choose from. I might snag up those 3500's locally and if I find something I like better, I can always sell them or keep them as a second set.

Rex81, how much power would the SDA's need? The Sansui puts out 125w per channel at 8ohms. There are a few pairs of RSA 2's on ebay for $275 buy it now. One of them is right by my sister, so I wouldn't mind making the trip.

A lot of people are voting for the A25's. Are they really that good? They just look so old, I would think they would be slow.

 

[Poofables]

Maybe I missed it, but have you heard any of these speakers? Pardon, if what I mention is old news to you.
If you spend much time on this site, will find avid fans of very different sounding speakers. Personnally, I would not pay market value for speakers I have not experienced, or atleast a close family member. If really cheap price that's different.
What speaker models and brands, that you have heard, have you liked? Might help members recommend in that similar voicing speakers.
I've never heard those Denon phones. I think phone experience is so different to speakers,IMO. Good hunting.

I have not heard any of these speakers. I would hope to audition them before making the final purchase, but don't know anyone who has any sort of stereo equipment. There are also no shops that deal with these locally that I have found. I think there may be one in Cleveland, and I may make the trip, but it's over an hour away.

Everything else I have, I have literally just stumbled across at garage sales and auctions in my neighborhood. I got the turntable complete for $3, and the Sansui was thrown in with some other stuff I bought. Ultimately, I would like to find some speakers with a market value of $2,000 for less than $10 near to my house, but I kind of doubt that will happen. Not so much to save the money, but just for the story of the great stereo for under $20.

That's why I'm willing to take people's opinions though. Because in the end, if it looks like an absolutely stupid deal, I will buy them and live with them. Many, many years ago, I heard a monstrous set of JBL's. They were probably 4-5 feet tall and three feet wide. They seemed like a bit "much". I also demoed some B&W towers around 2006. I don't recall the model, but they were about $2,000 each retail, and they were by far the best speakers I have ever heard. I didn't know imaging like that was possible. I also have a friend who has Polk Monitor 5's and to me, they sound like a speaker should.

 

[Rex81]

Thanks for all the great info so far!

Seems like there are a ton of Infinity's to choose from. I might snag up those 3500's locally and if I find something I like better, I can always sell them or keep them as a second set.

Rex81, how much power would the SDA's need? The Sansui puts out 125w per channel at 8ohms. There are a few pairs of RSA 2's on ebay for $275 buy it now. One of them is right by my sister, so I wouldn't mind making the trip.

A lot of people are voting for the A25's. Are they really that good? They just look so old, I would think they would be slow.

SDAs don't need power, they need current. I have heard them sound very good on an 18 watt tube receiver, and very bad on a 150 watt solid state receiver. The difference is the current that was available. The Sansui seems like a monster on paper, but like a lot of big receivers in this period, aren't actually that beefy and struggle to drive difficult loads.

I assume when you said "RSA 2" you meant SDA 2. Fine speakers, but again, you may need a different amp.

 

[eiraved]

Everything else I have, I have literally just stumbled across at garage sales and auctions in my neighborhood. I got the turntable complete for $3, and the Sansui was thrown in with some other stuff I bought.

A 9090db was "just thrown in"? Now that's a deal!
NOTE: Do not use 4 ohm speakers (or lower) with the Sansui! They're not capable of driving them without damaging the receiver.

 

[toxcrusadr]

A lot of audio enthusiasts don't have any other audio enthusiasts close by so little chance to hear different gear. But if you can, get the seller to audition them. With speakers in particular, the sound varies so much that you really should listen before buying. Preferably to music you're very familiar with.

 

[toxcrusadr]

Re: power vs. current, of course they are related. I have not owned a 9090db nor Polk SDA but after doing a bit of research on the 9090 I tend to agree with what Rex81 is saying. One would think a heavy 125 wpc monster receiver can handle most anything. "Difficult loads" includes low impedance speakers. I notice many of the SDA series are 6 ohms. Probably drop below that. A high current amp ideally will deliver 2x the wattage at 4 ohms as it does at 8. My Pio. SX-1250 is 165 wpc at 8 ohms, 200 wpc at 4 ohms - not a stellar amp for low impedance speakers. The Sansui is 125/8 ohms and 150/4 ohms - even worse. As much as the 9090db is a fantastic beautiful vintage machine, it is not designed to handle low impedance speakers. If the sensitivity of the speaker is low too, that adds a power hungry dimension on top of it. I ran monster AR9's (4 ohms and low sensitivity) with my 1250 and blew a tweeter by overloading the receiver.

 

[Rex81]

Indeed, power and current are related, but more importantly here is the design of the power supply.

SDAs allow for a great lesson in amp design/capability because they're low impedance (between 4 and 6 depending on the model) but high efficiency (between 91 and 93db).

So because of their efficiency, only need a few watts to get loud. But then their crossovers are extremely complex and to get the SDA effect working properly, require a lot of current. 70s "monster" receivers tend to deliver the exact opposite of what the SDAs require. They have plenty of watts but offer low current/inadequate power supplies.

Tube amps on the other hand are great with SDAs because it doesn't matter that they have low wattage, but they tend to deliver a ton of current (well, voltage really) through beefy power supplies.

But I digress. As much as I like talking about SDAs, this thread isn't really focused on them. Carry on.

 

[Poofables]

Indeed, power and current are related, but more importantly here is the design of the power supply.

SDAs allow for a great lesson in amp design/capability because they're low impedance (between 4 and 6 depending on the model) but high efficiency (between 91 and 93db).

So because of their efficiency, only need a few watts to get loud. But then their crossovers are extremely complex and to get the SDA effect working properly, require a lot of current. 70s "monster" receivers tend to deliver the exact opposite of what the SDAs require. They have plenty of watts but offer low current/inadequate power supplies.

Tube amps on the other hand are great with SDAs because it doesn't matter that they have low wattage, but they tend to deliver a ton of current (well, voltage really) through beefy power supplies.

But I digress. As much as I like talking about SDAs, this thread isn't really focused on them. Carry on.

Do you think I should stay away from 4ohm speakers then? That would rule out the Infinity 3500's. In the 9090db owners manual, it does say to not use them, just that you need to read the power differently if you do.

The only 8ohm speakers we have discussed so far are the Dynaco A25's. The rest are 6ohm.

 

[Rex81]

No, most 4 ohm speakers should be fine. I still think the 3500s are your best choice.

 

[davidb1]

Suggest spending the $25 to subscribe and have access to Bartertown. Incredible deals on here. You have an excellent source in your TT setup.

 

[Poofables]

Suggest spending the $25 to subscribe and have access to Bartertown. Incredible deals on here. You have an excellent source in your TT setup.

I may just do that. are there any other benefits that come with a subscription?

 

[eiraved]

No, most 4 ohm speakers should be fine.

Having owned two 9090db and one 990db receiver, I would not recommend using 4 ohm speakers on them. First off, the owner's manual doesn't recommend them (Sansui must have known something about this!). Secondly, I personally have damaged two of the three receivers I owned driving 4 ohm speakers (before I learned my lesson!).