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Circuit Sansui ES200 (improved)

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guest128

New Member
As the title sais, i am looking for the circuit diagram of the ES200 crossover (improved version), or even a picture of the inside. (Sansui N200-03 it sais on the bottom)

It seems that the crossovers in my speakers were busted (years ago) and I am certainly missing one capacitor (in both speakers) and I do not know which wire goes to which speaker.

I have attached a picture of my crossovers, and the values of the components that I know: http://imgur.com/a/9TQ1Y

Can someone please make a picture of the inside of their speaker cabinet because I'd love to restore these speakers.
 
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Hi Alcoleaf. Welcome to AudioKarma Sansui Forum. HifiEngine website has a manual for these speakers. It might have the crossover wiring diagram. Our serial number database doesn't have listing for these speakers. That means no AK members have reported owning a pair. It dosn't mean that nobody has a pair, just that they haven't reported the serial number. Can you please post the serial numbers? Click on the link in my signature block.

- Pete
 
Hi Pete,

Thanks for the reply. I have already looked at the manual, and there is no wiring diagram. The additional document, containing a review of the earlier '74 version, does have a wiring diagram, but lacks information with respect to the inductance. If I would have the correct values of uH for each the inductors this would be a possible way to go, however I do prefer to restore them to the improved '76 version (of which i could not find a diagram).

I did see some posts on this forum of people owning these speakers, so I am hoping someone is able to help me. If I do find the correct values I'll make sure it will be archived here for future reference.

cheers
 
here is a picture of the ES200 crossover on ebay. all caps are non polar. Are you sure that your crossovers are original??

The red wire (+) and its black pair go to the woofer
The yellow wire (+) and its black pair go to the midrange
The white wire (+) and its pair go to the tweeter

upload_2017-7-27_12-47-4.png

upload_2017-7-27_12-47-26.png
 
Picture of the speaker label from which the crossover came.
link address of ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sansui-Es-200-Crossover-/253022428505?hash=item3ae94fdd59:g:T3IAAOSwUKxYajRY


s-l1600.jpg
 
Dear Tom, ls,

The one you sent is from the older '74 model.

They are, hand made original Sansui from 76. The caps have a lifespan of approximately 15 to 20 years if i'm correct, so my best guess is that they have been replaced. The print is definitely, 100% certain, original (it is even branded on the back side).

I just received a PM of another owner, of the '76 ES200 model, and he said that all the caps originally are bipolar, he will take a look and send me a picture of his crossovers.

If this all works out i'll post the schematics here and on HifiEngine.

Thanks :-)
 
I do have a pair of Sansui ES-200 speakers from 1976 ( Improved / without Attentuators ). I own them for as long as 20 years now and always enjoyed the warm sound and detailled mids and highs. Yesterday i recapped the crossovers with Jantzen Cross Cap capacitors.

14vljea.jpg


The values that are present on the board are : 24 µF / 10 µF / 2,5 µF and 6 µF.

So these needed to be replaced after more than 40 years. Exact values are hard to find nowadays so some improvisation is needed to get the values as exact as possible.

Jantzen Cross Cap 22 µF + 2 µF = 24 µF , 10 µF are available , 1 µF + 1,5 µF = 2,5 µF , and to replace the 6 µF capacitor i used a 6,2 µF Jantzen Cross Cap only.

Remove the old ones first :

http://i66.tinypic.com/sytbex.jpg


And replace and solder them with the new Jantzen Cross Caps


http://i68.tinypic.com/259bcr7.jpg

What a difference!. Better and more detailled mids and highs. They seem to be breathing and alive with a very nice timide and soft crisp.
 
Paul Thijs said:
I do have a pair of Sansui ES-200 speakers from 1976 ( Improved / without Attentuators ). I own them for as long as 20 years now and always enjoyed the warm sound and detailled mids and highs. Yesterday i recapped the crossovers with Jantzen Cross Cap capacitors.

14vljea.jpg


The values that are present on the board are : 24 µF / 10 µF / 2,5 µF and 6 µF.

So these needed to be replaced after more than 40 years. Exact values are hard to find nowadays so some improvisation is needed to get the values as exact as possible.

Jantzen Cross Cap 22 µF + 2 µF = 24 µF , 10 µF are available , 1 µF + 1,5 µF = 2,5 µF , and to replace the 6 µF capacitor i used a 6,2 µF Jantzen Cross Cap only.

Remove the old ones first :

http://i66.tinypic.com/sytbex.jpg


And replace and solder them with the new Jantzen Cross Caps


http://i68.tinypic.com/259bcr7.jpg

What a difference!. Better and more detailled mids and highs. They seem to be breathing and alive with a very nice timide and soft crisp.
Click to expand...

Too bad the pics are missing. I just picked up a pair of these (the so called improved version, I think they just cut cost no attenuators and no foam covered front baffle) and would have liked to see if the caps are still original. Are the Rubycon capacitors of version one originals? They do sound good already but the mids and highs could use a bit more detail. People also say maybe some bitumous could help the speakers. (The kind that is used in cars??) I would also be interest in the foam the front baffle has in version one. I could fit something similar on the improved model.
 
Every Sansui speaker crossover I've worked on from about 1968-1976 has used Rubycon non-polar electrolytic capacitors (almost always with a light blue sleeve) in the factory build, so you can be confident those are originals.

FWIW, the ES series were custom designed and built in Europe and sold in European market countries where the SP and AS series sold elsewhere (primarily into Asia, the US and US military exchange markets) simply had no appeal.

I've never seen any of the ES speaker line in person, and perhaps 2 or 3 pair for sale in the US in over 20 years now. They would only have arrived stateside by way of being imported by someone who owned them and brought them over from Europe.

This is speculation on my part, but I'm inclined to think the ES line was developed by and/or at the behest of one of Sansui's major European distributors who recognized the need for a distintly Euro-flavored speaker system. Such an arrangement was not unheard of, if one reads the recent thread on smaller GX series racks that were arranged for by the Dutch distributor that was recently posted here.
 
Sansuiman said:
... FWIW, the ES series were custom designed and built in Europe and sold in European market countries ... This is speculation on my part, but I'm inclined to think the ES line was developed by and/or at the behest of one of Sansui's major European distributors who recognized the need for a distintly Euro-flavored speaker system. Such an arrangement was not unheard of, if one reads the recent thread on smaller GX series racks that were arranged for by the Dutch distributor that was recently posted here.
Click to expand...


The ES series (European Speaker ??) were made in Belgium under supervision of Sansui Audio Europe N.V. (a Belgium based Sansui office-only that was established problably ca. 1969). In brochures was written that these speaker lines (ES and ES-P) were made to fit the European sound signature, but also was very important that these Belgium made speakers (a) avoided (the at that time huge) import taxes and (be) were made more cost efficient to compete better on the european market. This was important because as I recall buyers back then would much more spend their money on the amp and not on the speakers (not very logical sound wise, but that was how it was). Great brands (like Sansui) were often paired with low budget speakers.

The ES line started mid 70-ies with ES-50/100/200 and is relative high quality.
It seems the basic design of the ES series was inspired by the AS series (this indicates heavy involvement of Sansui Japan).

The ES-P line started end 70-ies (or begin 80-ies) with ES-P 301 and is low budget.
The ES-P series was clearly inspired by the bulk of simple and low-priced speakers of that time and were far drifted from the "Sansui" quality brand experience (this indicates more involvement of the European distributors).

The difference with the "clone racks" made by the Dutch distributor (sold on the Dutch market only) was that the speaker units (woofers/mids/tweeters) and cross overs were Sansui and probably came from Japan (or at least badged/stamped Sansui) and the complete speakers were an official Sansui product (sold Europe wide). The ES speakers were made by a sub-contractor somewhere in Belgium, probably a wood-working company that manufactured the cabinets and filled/assembled them them with Sansui units. I have some memories that indicate that the much lower end ES-P speakers were not made in Belgium but were outsorced to a subcontractor in the Netherlands, the same one that made the "clone racks" for the Dutch distributor.

Have fun
-John-
 
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RCA Plugger said:
..They do sound good already but the mids and highs could use a bit more detail..
Click to expand...

My experience with the ES-200 improved is that it can pair very well with some equipment: I found them to pair very nicely with a Sansui 771 reciever (but less impressive with an AU-517 setup).

I did not try, but my gut feeling tells me that there is probably not much to gain by doing more to these speakers then change old/drifted cross over parts. But if you decide to make some modifications, I would be very happy to hear/read of your findings :thumbsup:

Have fun
-John-
 
I was thinking more in line of bringing the casing up to the first model with the foam(?) covered front baffle. Replace the caps and maybe apply bitumen pads on the inside as was mentioned in the review on hifiengine (for reducing panel vibration) ( https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sansui/es-200.shtml ) I am using a AU-317. I need to move the volume two notches up to get the same volume level to my other speakers which are 4 ohm and probably also have a higher sensitivity (not listed). They are too big for my office where I have a 331 receiver. The caps are 45 years old now so a refresh is probably very due. Anyway the mail company managed to bust a corner so the sealing of one of the speakers is probably slightly compromised. I'll need to fix that from the inside. They arrived at my doorstep for 56 euro's so it's worth investing a bit in them.
 
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@jd-audio,

Good information there. I'd not considered the import tax angle making locally produced (assembled) speakers a viable strategy at the time. I always presumed the ES series were done simply to have a line of speakers that appealed to distinctly European expectations, where Sansui's other existing speaker lines clearly didn't.

I've found it odd that despite being an official Sansui product, the logo mark used on the ES series grilles was notably distinct from the Sansui corporate logo.
 
According to the 1975 review Sansui built a typical European room (as opposed to a Japanese one) to develop these speakers for the European market. They certainly don't sound Japanese and can lay a good fundament for rock music. Not like okay there is bass I can hear it, but more like it fills the room and carries the song on it.
 
I had a pair of Sansui ES207's they were really quite good and I liked them, but the treble was noticeably rough. I remember reading that they were made in Belgium, I think the label on the rear said they were.
 
Doing an image search of the ES-200 showed the model ID and specification sticker on the rear reads "Made by Sansui plant in Europe - Belgium". Thus raising the question, was this just a subcontracted assembly operation (which is what I'd assume) or did Sansui Europe N.V. actually have a company operated plant of some kind there?

I do wonder because Panasonic for many years had a plant in tbe UK that made their small office phone PBX systems that were sold in the US. Turns out they established that plant solely to avoid US anti-dumping tariffs on telecommunications equipment made in Japan.

The hardware made in the UK plant was identical to that made in Japan, but could be exported for sale in the US at far less punitive tax rates. The difference being so great that setting up an entirely separate manufactuing facility in anotber country became profitable.
 
RCA Plugger said:
Too bad the pics are missing. I just picked up a pair of these (the so called improved version, I think they just cut cost no attenuators and no foam covered front baffle) and would have liked to see if the caps are still original. Are the Rubycon capacitors of version one originals? They do sound good already but the mids and highs could use a bit more detail. People also say maybe some bitumous could help the speakers. (The kind that is used in cars??) I would also be interest in the foam the front baffle has in version one. I could fit something similar on the improved model.
Click to expand...

Hi , i will upload the pictures i have made two years ago, or make them visible on G-Drive in a while

Use this link to view my photo's of the Sansui ES-200 (improved) circuit recapped and before
recap

https://photos.app.goo.gl/72R2Yy7VLWP4d2JD9




This is a photo of the original ES-200 circuit and it's components
Earlier this year i have re-arranged the circuit boards and replaced the capacitors and fixed them with hot glue and better positioning on the board.
On the photo's you see the old caps ( grey ones from WICO ) and the new ones from Jantzen Audio.
Also i have refilled the cabinet with polyester damping in the top of the cabinet , and Muhwolle in the bottom of the cabinet.
Last thing to do is to replace the binding post with large screw-and pull bindings for the speaker cables.

Two years ago i already sanded the cabinets and painted them matte black.

r3kpfVL
 
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