Circuit Sansui ES200 (improved)

[Paul Thijs]

Today i have made a minor correction L-pad to adjust the midrange dome speaker. I always had the feeling that this unit was a little too present. That was already the case even before i did a recap of the crossover parts. Maybe it's the way people in Asia like their speakers tuned where the midrange is always very present and sometimes aggressive maybe or expressive so to speak. But here in europe we like more bass and an overall somewhat ''heavier'' or ''fuller'' sound with more body. And that's excactly the result of adding this L-pad correction network without having too redesign your original crossover (or recapped one).
Sound definitly has the same Sansui ES-200 signature but now with a more ''in balance'' midrange in respect to the woofer and dome tweeter and thus making the overall sound smoother and with more body.
This L-pad correction doesn't change anything in the original filter and also not in the frequency spectrum. So the typical Sansui ES-200 sound is guaranteed.

L-pad attentuation network for - 6 dB @ 8ohm 10watt > 2 ceramic resistors 3,9ohm/10watt and 2 ceramic resistors 8,04ohm/10watt. Connect the 3,9R in series and the 8,04R parallel after the 3,9R in series.

So i highly recommend owners of the underestimated and undervalued Sansui ES-200 to make this L-pad correction network and enjoy these old buddies even more for years to come!.

Listen and do some testing before making the correction final and you can always try a -3 dB correction @ 8ohm , but i have made a correction of -6 dB.

For more information see:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-Lpad.htm

https://soundcertified.com/how-to-r...eter_resistor_how-to_diagram_and_OhmsdB_chart

 

[Paul Thijs]

The ES series (European Speaker ??) were made in Belgium under supervision of Sansui Audio Europe N.V. (a Belgium based Sansui office-only that was established problably ca. 1969). In brochures was written that these speaker lines (ES and ES-P) were made to fit the European sound signature, but also was very important that these Belgium made speakers (a) avoided (the at that time huge) import taxes and (be) were made more cost efficient to compete better on the european market. This was important because as I recall buyers back then would much more spend their money on the amp and not on the speakers (not very logical sound wise, but that was how it was). Great brands (like Sansui) were often paired with low budget speakers.

The ES line started mid 70-ies with ES-50/100/200 and is relative high quality.
It seems the basic design of the ES series was inspired by the AS series (this indicates heavy involvement of Sansui Japan).

The ES-P line started end 70-ies (or begin 80-ies) with ES-P 301 and is low budget.
The ES-P series was clearly inspired by the bulk of simple and low-priced speakers of that time and were far drifted from the "Sansui" quality brand experience (this indicates more involvement of the European distributors).

The difference with the "clone racks" made by the Dutch distributor (sold on the Dutch market only) was that the speaker units (woofers/mids/tweeters) and cross overs were Sansui and probably came from Japan (or at least badged/stamped Sansui) and the complete speakers were an official Sansui product (sold Europe wide). The ES speakers were made by a sub-contractor somewhere in Belgium, probably a wood-working company that manufactured the cabinets and filled/assembled them them with Sansui units. I have some memories that indicate that the much lower end ES-P speakers were not made in Belgium but were outsorced to a subcontractor in the Netherlands, the same one that made the "clone racks" for the Dutch distributor.

Have fun
-John-

read latest post regarding a correction network of - 6dB for the Sansui ES-200

 

[Jerry.K]

Today i have made a minor correction L-pad to adjust the midrange dome speaker. I always had the feeling that this unit was a little too present. That was already the case even before i did a recap of the crossover parts. Maybe it's the way people in Asia like their speakers tuned where the midrange is always very present and sometimes aggressive maybe or expressive so to speak. But here in europe we like more bass and an overall somewhat ''heavier'' or ''fuller'' sound with more body. And that's excactly the result of adding this L-pad correction network without having too redesign your original crossover (or recapped one).
Sound definitly has the same Sansui ES-200 signature but now with a more ''in balance'' midrange in respect to the woofer and dome tweeter and thus making the overall sound smoother and with more body.
This L-pad correction doesn't change anything in the original filter and also not in the frequency spectrum. So the typical Sansui ES-200 sound is guaranteed.

L-pad attentuation network for - 6 dB @ 8ohm 10watt > 2 ceramic resistors 3,9ohm/10watt and 2 ceramic resistors 8,04ohm/10watt. Connect the 3,9R in series and the 8,04R parallel after the 3,9R in series.

So i highly recommend owners of the underestimated and undervalued Sansui ES-200 to make this L-pad correction network and enjoy these old buddies even more for years to come!.

Listen and do some testing before making the correction final and you can always try a -3 dB correction @ 8ohm , but i have made a correction of -6 dB.

For more information see:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-Lpad.htm

https://soundcertified.com/how-to-r...eter_resistor_how-to_diagram_and_OhmsdB_chart

Thanks for all your work and tips for how to improve the ES-200 speakers Paul !
i have a very nice pair of these and i did the crossover recap with jantzen caps ,also changed internal wires and binding posts.good improvements.
Overall i am really happy with the sound/soundstage (after dialing in sweetspot) but...for some recordings i feel the mids/highs to be a little bit harsh/tiring to my ears...
dont know how much it is the speaker/amp/dac or the room ...
maybe doing the L-pad correction to the midrange you suggest , -6db , would make it a bit less harsh ?
Where did you place the resistors ? right after the crossover or up by the midrange speaker ?
i got the resistors and will also change out the rockwool inside for some Lambs Wool Speaker Stuffing i got.
do you have any ideas on how much to use and how to stuff it ?
im also thinking about putting some self adhesive bitumen pads on the inside for reducing panel vibration ,have you tried that ?

my setup is mostly vintage stuff, pioneer SX-650 (recaped, changed transistors etc.) ,pioneer pl-115d turntable ,older philips cd ,Denafrips Ares 2 dac.
all interconnects are supra cables ,have also been using the supra ply 3.4s speaker cable wich i have been happy with but being a tweaker i am
currently testing/burning in the NorStone DHCR-100.2 cable wich sounds promissing

 

[Paul Thijs]

Overall i am really happy with the sound/soundstage (after dialing in sweetspot) but...for some recordings i feel the mids/highs to be a little bit harsh/tiring to my ears...
maybe doing the L-pad correction to the midrange you suggest , -6db , would make it a bit less harsh ?
Where did you place the resistors ? right after the crossover or up by the midrange speaker ?

do you have any ideas on how much to use and how to stuff it ?

Hey Jerry,

Yes the L-pad will make it sound less harsh without any adjustment to the frequency spectrum which remains the same. It´s only reduced in ´loudness´/dB. I would suggest depending on your environment to try a -3dB L-pad first. if that isn´t enough you can try a -6dB and decide what´s best in your situation.
About the stuffing: i have stuffed mine with 500grams of Muhlwolle each. The inner panels are done with foam spikes. Do some stuffing after you made the L-pads i would suggest and listen if you notice any differences and adjust some more if needed or remove some. But definitly the L-pad correction is your best shot at first hand!.

I placed the l-pad just before the midrange speaker. That said , i still have to try a -3dB l-pad in my own situation if it suits better then the -6dB l-pad,but haven´t had time yet so far...........

 

[Jerry.K]

thanks again Paul.
i got the resistors for a -3db L-pad to try first ,will do the bitumen to inner panels + -3db L-pad first. Test and then refill stuffing.
hope to get to it soon. will check back.

 

[Jerry.K]

So ,i have done the inner panels with bitumen first and then foam spikes .
Then i used 500grams of this Lambs wool stuffing in each speaker.
also added some speaker sealing tape to the woofers ,will do the mid/tweeter also when i get some more....
Did some listening and the improvements where good. a bit more base ,in a nice way.
a little bit less harsh in the mid/highs but the "bright recordings" are still a bit tiring to my ears....might be the acoustics in the room...
i have some dampening panels behind the speakers and on the right speaker sidewall ,and a big one at the wall right behind my listening position.
thinking about getting some diffusers....

i then did the -3db L-pad on the midrange dome speaker.
the difference was barely noticeable ,mid/highs still a bit harsh on the brighter recordings.
did the -6db L-pad ,mids got a bit less hars ,not much but at least noticeable.
i have to do some more listening to decide if i will keep the -6db L-pad or take it out

overall i am very pleased with these speakers and the improvements i have done to them this far.
looking again at the crossover had me thinking if it would be worth it to change out the old resistors for some newer ones like Jantzen Audio ?

 

[Paul Thijs]

[QUOTE="overall i am very pleased with these speakers and the improvements i have done to them this far.
looking again at the crossover had me thinking if it would be worth it to change out the old resistors for some newer ones like Jantzen Audio ?[/QUOTE]

I don´t think replacing the resistors will have much or any impact. A resistor hardly ages or loses resistance.....anyway i haven´t replaced any resistor

 

[Jerry.K]

Hi again Paul ,i couldnt resist so i changed all the resistors 3xJantzen and 1 Mundorf.... i also use Jantzen resistors for the -6db L-pad on the mid dome.
i also changed position on 2 of the coils at the crossover board to minimize cross-coupling between inductors ,guess it cant hurt....see pic.
What i do know is that these speakers have never sounded better than right now

View media item 29406

 

[Paul Thijs]

Hi again Paul ,i couldnt resist so i changed all the resistors 3xJantzen and 1 Mundorf.... i also use Jantzen resistors for the -6db L-pad on the mid dome.
i also changed position on 2 of the coils at the crossover board to minimize cross-coupling between inductors ,guess it cant hurt....see pic.
What i do know is that these speakers have never sounded better than right now

View media item 29406

I couldn't agree more Jerry!. I own these speakers for quite some time now( since 2008ish ) and i think it won't get better then this with these minor upgrades i have done. Happy to hear your satisfied!!. And you've done a good job on the crossover!. Looking good....

Paul

 

[Paul Thijs]

Hi Jerry. In addition to your replaced resistors: if those are the Superes from Jantzen, these are not your best option for usage in the mid and high section in the crossover. Better use the simple ceramic ones, these do a better job. The Superes are for usage in high powered configurations, mostly active filters or in low mid and bass, and have higher induction then the ceramic ones. So your configuration maybe a mismatch.

 

[Jerry.K]

Hi Jerry. In addition to your replaced resistors: if those are the Superes from Jantzen, these are not your best option for usage in the mid and high section in the crossover. Better use the simple ceramic ones, these do a better job. The Superes are for usage in high powered configurations, mostly active filters or in low mid and bass, and have higher induction then the ceramic ones. So your configuration maybe a mismatch.

Hi Paul ,interesting. i have searched but found nothing that indicates that the jantzen superes resistors would be a bad choice for mid and high sections in the crossover...
do you have a link where i can read up on that ?
currently i have 2 jantzen superes and 1 mundorf in the mid/high section of the crossover.
speakers still sounds great so i think i will leave the crossover as is
thinking about adding a switch to bypass the midrange L-pad ,would be nice to be able to do a A/B test with or without the L-pad.

 

[Paul Thijs]

Hi Paul ,interesting. i have searched but found nothing that indicates that the jantzen superes resistors would be a bad choice for mid and high sections in the crossover...
do you have a link where i can read up on that ?
currently i have 2 jantzen superes and 1 mundorf in the mid/high section of the crossover.
speakers still sounds great so i think i will leave the crossover as is
thinking about adding a switch to bypass the midrange L-pad ,would be nice to be able to do a A/B test with or without the L-pad.

Hi Jerry. Still satisfied with the Sansui speakers?

I might give it a try also and replace the old resitors for some new ones. Would u be so kind to write down the values of all resistors here, so i don't have to open the cabinet first and take a peek again.

I have tested the difference between Superes and ceramic resitors on some other speakers i have, and the difference is definitely there in advantage for the Superes ones

Thank you

 

[Jerry.K]

Hi Paul,
the speakers are still sounding very good and i have not done anything to them after my last post
still using the -6db L-pad on the mid.
i'm thinking about removing that L-pad though and take a listen again ,just to hear the difference once more
maybe install a switch to turn that L-pad on/off....
one reason that made me want to try without the L-pad is becouse i just got my hands on a Sansui AU-555A receiver
that has individual controls for bass/midrange/treble. (that AU-555A sounds awesome by the way !)

Of course i have the values for ya ,im also posting a pic i made in photoshop of the crossover with components and the traces.
resistor values are easy to see in that pic also
The resistor values are (for each crossover) 1 x 22.0 Ohm , 1x 2.2 Ohm , 1 x 2.7 Ohm , 1 x 39.0 Ohm

Please ,post later when you changed resistors and what you noticed.

 

[Paul Thijs]

Thanks!