The mac is a fantastic amp when it comes to midrange and up, the most natural sound I have ever heard. It still kills me that I gave that up. On the other hand, the bottom end is very weak and there is no real authority behind the sound. I listen to quite a bit of rock and the mac just didn't work as well with the music I liked. I'm having a really hard time dealing with the tradeoff though.
Classe vs. McIntosh
- Thread starter mdonda
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The mac is a fantastic amp when it comes to midrange and up, the most natural sound I have ever heard. It still kills me that I gave that up. On the other hand, the bottom end is very weak and there is no real authority behind the sound. I listen to quite a bit of rock and the mac just didn't work as well with the music I liked. I'm having a really hard time dealing with the tradeoff though.
What position was the DPM switch in (4 or 8 ohm)? What speakers were you using, and what's their impedance?
The MC-207 is not known for weak bass. Here's two quotes from a professional review in Audio/Video Revolution:
"The McIntosh MC207 had a firm grip over my Paradigm’s [S8] bass drivers and effortlessly pushed them to plunge deeper than most amps I’ve had in recent memory. The simple drum kit was rendered faithfully in both scale and weight. The subtle snare hits were rife with air and the decay the McIntosh MC207 exhibited was second to none."
"As the battle raged on, the dynamic prowess and added weight in the bottom end through the McIntosh MC207 aided the larger than life action and epic quality of the sequence, transporting my listening position to the heart of the front lines."
http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-p...sh-mc207-multi-channel-power-amplifier-2.html
My MC-207 has excellent bass, and I've had it hooked up to a wide variety of speakers, including Legacy Focus 20/20s. I haven't found it lacking with any of them. This leads me to suspect a DPM problem.
waxman
Swedish HiFi & Wine Lover
I was usting the 8ohm tap with B&W 683s (nominal impedence is 8 ohms) I also tried the 4 ohm tap, but it didn't help.
Quote from av revolution regarding the MC252:
"Even though the MC252 did a good job at sending quality mid range and treble tones to the loudspeakers, the bass was just a tad too light for my tastes. Your subwoofer that is currently integrated into your own audio system should be the right match for this power amplifier, otherwise you might be disappointed by the less than stellar low end that the MC252 powers out "
http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-p...lifiers/mcintosh-mc252-power-amplifier-3.html
I'm confused again. You started out comparing the MC-207, which doesn't have taps (no autoformers), and now you're comparing an MC-252, which you never mentioned before. What did you actually demo?
Just trying to make a point. Peopole on the forum think the bass issue is due to the lack of autoformers in the MC207, which I did demo. I think mcintosh lacks on the bottom end regardless of autoformers. As far as classe being rolled off on the high end...if you look at the measurements of the CA-2200, they show a flat frequency response from 20hz to 20khz.
http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/classe_ca2200/
I'm trying to figure out if a mcintosh preamp will filter the signal and give a smooth sound regardless of the type of amplifier used in conjuction.
Hmmm, meters swing all the way to the right,
all it's got. Heavy bass SACD, Reggae. No power guard though so must still be some juice left that I am not using. Most of the time, I listen at lower power but SOMETIMES, you just have to "ROCK DA HOUSE."Actually the measurements do not bear this out. The Mcintosh amps are able to dig deep for low impedance loads,which usually means bass, but the Classe reduces power. It's always a good idea to run test sweeps to see what the amps are actually doing. That's what I always do. Amps that reduce power at low impedance are poorly designed IMO.
What where you using to drive the amp? My Theta Casablanca via the balanced outputs has no problem driving my amps to full output. There could be some sort of mismatch taking place. If you only got 20 watts no matter how hard you drove the speakers, something was wrong. In the end, let your ears be the judge. I am a BASS HEAD. No way I would own Mcintosh amps if they were weak in the bass. I do not have any experience with the MC207 so can not comment. I would caution you against comparing a two channel amp vs a multichannel amp. The two channel amp usually has the advantage. You still would have likely favored the Classe but at least it's more of an apples to apples comparison.
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MX117.MC7150
Listener
You continue to use the term 'filter', which has a specific meaning in audio (and other) electronics. McIntosh and other reputable manufacturers do not and would not 'filter' the sonics in either their preamps or power amps. While you may or may not prefer the sound of one or another (and this whole thread is subjective, so no reason to argue - we all hear what we hear) piece of gear over another, there are no 'filters' in McIntosh preamps and amps. Only in their digital (and everyone else's) gear like an MCD300/500, etc.
I love to read reviews were the actual equipment is tested. If you look at the Classe website info for the CA-5300 you might not notice that they do not give a spec for a 4ohm load for this amp. They do for the other amps
. It is something I would have missed. Even the lowest powered amp the CA-2100 has a 4ohm rating. http://www.classeaudio.com/delta/delta-ca5300.htm I would stay away from the CA-5300. Also, I noticed that if you look at the specs of the CA-2300 vs Mcintosh MC302 that the MC302 is pretty much beating the Classe amp at every spec. Sometimes you have to look closer at the specs to see what is really happening. In the past, Classe has quoted its power output at a much higher distortion. When distortion levels are equal, I suspect the MC302 will have a huge power advantage over the CA-2300. I believe that this will hold true down both companies product lines. It certainly is true for the MC501s vs the CA-M400. When I think about Mcintosh power, I think of this line from AC/DC's "Back in
Black,","Back in the back,Of a Cadillac,Number one with a bullet, I'm a power pack!" Mcintosh is definitely both a Cadillac of high-end amps and a POWER PACK.
. It is something I would have missed. Even the lowest powered amp the CA-2100 has a 4ohm rating. http://www.classeaudio.com/delta/delta-ca5300.htm I would stay away from the CA-5300. Also, I noticed that if you look at the specs of the CA-2300 vs Mcintosh MC302 that the MC302 is pretty much beating the Classe amp at every spec. Sometimes you have to look closer at the specs to see what is really happening. In the past, Classe has quoted its power output at a much higher distortion. When distortion levels are equal, I suspect the MC302 will have a huge power advantage over the CA-2300. I believe that this will hold true down both companies product lines. It certainly is true for the MC501s vs the CA-M400. When I think about Mcintosh power, I think of this line from AC/DC's "Back in Black,","Back in the back,Of a Cadillac,Number one with a bullet, I'm a power pack!" Mcintosh is definitely both a Cadillac of high-end amps and a POWER PACK.
Let's see if we can sum up the mystery here:
1. First, the OP was convinced that all Mc amps lack bass.
2. Then, the OP is convinced that all Mc products "filter" the sound.
3. He provides no answers about the DPM setting, or speakers involved.
4. His conclusions run contrary to published reviews and specs.
5. He states his conclusions as if they were commonly known problems.
6. He brings all this up after already deciding, and buying a Classe amp.
Hmmm... dontcha wonder why he's considering any Mc gear? If he really believes all the negative comments, shouldn't he just buy Classe stuff and stop asking the members of this forum to defend Mc when he's already made his decision and his beliefs are set in place?
1. First, the OP was convinced that all Mc amps lack bass.
2. Then, the OP is convinced that all Mc products "filter" the sound.
3. He provides no answers about the DPM setting, or speakers involved.
4. His conclusions run contrary to published reviews and specs.
5. He states his conclusions as if they were commonly known problems.
6. He brings all this up after already deciding, and buying a Classe amp.
Hmmm... dontcha wonder why he's considering any Mc gear? If he really believes all the negative comments, shouldn't he just buy Classe stuff and stop asking the members of this forum to defend Mc when he's already made his decision and his beliefs are set in place?
DonBattles
Well-Known Member
Why ask for suggestions if you've already made your choice. If you like the Classe that great and since you made your choice what more is there to say other than enjoy the music.
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DonBattles
Well-Known Member
+1000
Nikko75
Listener and Music Lover
Yup, his mind was already set. Sometimes I think this type of thread is created with an agenda.
MX117.MC7150
Listener
That's why I suggested it be moved to the 'reviews' forum. It was just put here to troll the McIntosh forum.
What speakers are you using with the Mac? I know a lot of people run B&W speakers with Mac, but it may not be the best match for me. I know the speakers will make a difference.
1. I listened to several Mac setups and that was my impression. All the setups did however use B&W...maybe not the best combo.
2. I spoke with several people in the business and asked how one would achieve the "smooth tube sound" from ss amp. They claimed the manufacturer would "filter the crap out of it", thus the loss in detail.
3. I did respond to your questions and told you I used the 8 ohm tap and did try the 4 ohm tap without a difference. I also told you I was using the B&W 683s.
4. I also provided a link to a professional review of the MC252 where the reviewer claimed the bottom end was lacking and suggested supplementing a sub.
5. I will give you that one...really speaking more from my experience.
6. I got a great deal on a classe amp, but that doesn't mean that I can't change amps in the future. By posting this thread I'm trying to figure out if there is something that could contribute to my experience besides the amp. Like I mentioned several times, I like the smoothness of the Mac, the build quality, and the look, But I found the sound a bit thin and the tonal balance lacking a tad on the lower end. I also posted the question to you guys if you think that by running a Mac pre I could get the smoothness of the Mac amp, while still maintaing the weightier sound and tonal balance I liked with the classe.
The point is, I really haven't made my mind up 100%. I'm a bit obsessive when it comes to these things and would like your input.
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