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Cleaning Records with steam or hot water

HamDog

HamDog

AudioGuy
I always clean my records under the sink, using a soft sponge with Palmolive. I make sure the water is warm, but not hot. Then dry with a micro fiber cloth and a quick press of air from one of the air compressor cans.

A record store close to me was moving, so they had a huge sale on their "records in the attic" inventory. 10 records for $1. So I randomly bought 30 junk records for $3 for the sole purpose of testing with various methods of cleaning. These are all trash records, so I don't feel bad about ruining them.

Test 1: I boiled some water. Poured it on the vinyl! As expected, I got severe warping. But the severe warping *improved" into really bad warping after a few minutes. But still unplayable, even with a silver dollar taped to the tonearm.

Test 2: Full hot water from under the sink. Sure, depending on your hot water heater and it's distance, we'll all get different temperature readings. I live in a 7-unit apartment building, and I didn't get any temp readings, but it's hot water. The record warps a little if kept under the running water for longer than 8-10 seconds. A trick is to keep spinning it. A tad bit of warping does take place, but within a few seconds of removing it from the running hot water, it gets it's shape back. I was really surprised by this. I thought it would ruin the record, but it didn't.

Test 3: Steam. I bought a cheap Shark steam machine for $18! You have to keep pumping a button to keep steam going. It even drips some hot water as the steam comes out. Just like hot water, it did warp the record a bit, but the record again regained it's shape after removing the steam. Once again, if you keep the record spinning, the warping effects aren't that bad (if any at all). You also need to play with the distance of the steam nozzle from the record.

Since no two records are the same in filthiness, it's tough to do a comparison of which showed the best results. Both the running hot water under the sink and steam did remove a lot of dirt. But all in all, I just find it easier and faster to clean under the sink. Also, we have to take into account the record itself. Some are much thicker than others. The thinner records are much more prone to warping. I tried to stay consistent in my tests and used regular "thin" albums.

What this has taught me is not to be too critical of the "luke warm water". I can use much warmer water without worrying about warping. Heck, I can even just turn on the hot water by itself as long as I keep turning the record.

I have about 25 more records left for testing! Don't know what else to try!
 
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Having once watched a new record warp from the heat of a human hand (98.6 F.), I would hestate to use anything hotter than slightly warm water to clean an LP.
 
Steam works very well! We also use a Shark on the really nasty ones. Yes, they warp a bit while steaming, but return to normal as they cool. Do not fear the steam! Dozens cleaned this way and no damage.
 
I didn't know there was a lot of criticism of "luke warm water." I know people will say you don't know clean until you RCM. But that ignores your budget and particular needs.

I also didn't know anyone recommending using boiling hot water or oil for that matter. :D

Lots of steam cleaning threads though. I suspect they use techniques that don't irreparably warp the records:
http://www.google.com/custom?client...+cleaning+vinyl&sitesearch=www.audiokarma.org

Panotaker said:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=272753
Last week some one posted this youtube video of some guy cleaning records with a steam cleaner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6OjtKUZ048&feature=related Like most of you I was skeptical, but I figured what the heck, and went for it. I practice first on an old record to make sure I wasn't going to melt a hole through it or warp it. Mine didn't even warp like it shows in the video. So I went for my worst record on my next try. John Lennon's "Imagine" on The John Lennon Collection LP. This song only has John singing and a piano playing, so any noise is going to stand out. It is so bad that it sounds like someone stuck a mic in a bowl of rice crispies cerial and you can barely hear the song in the back ground.

I don't have that fancy water or three brushes like the video shows, I just have one brush, Disc Doctor's Quick Wash record cleaner, and some distilled water. Well I steamed it and rinsed it a couple of times like the video shows and then played it. Man I could not believe it! It got rid of 90% of the noise on my first try. I have cleaned this record a bunch of times on my VPI 16.5 and had no luck, I even used the wood glue method on it once and it didn't put a dent on it. Well I went back and steamed and rinsed it about 5 or 6 times playing the record between each cycle and every time it got a little cleaner. After the last time, the record was dead quiet. So from now on, it's going to be the steam method for me. I am going to order more brushes tomorrow and figure out where to get that fancy water.
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Use common sense and learn what works for you. If it works then that's all that counts.
 
illinoisteve said:
Having once watched a new record warp from the heat of a human hand (98.6 F.), I would hestate to use anything hotter than slightly warm water to clean an LP.
Click to expand...

Please elaborate. How was the record being held? Was it really hot outside? I have 25 records left for testing, but I highly doubt I can make any of them warp by holding it in my hand!

terra1 said:
I didn't know there was a lot of criticism of "luke warm water." I know people will say you don't know clean until you RCM. But that ignores your budget and particular needs.
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This is AK! We can criticize anything! I used to spend some time making sure the flowing water is luke warm. But now I don't worry about it if it's on the warmer side. I now understand our beloved vinyl isn't as fragile as I had thought. And I think warmer water....even a bit hot, can actually clean better and not do any damage.

The boiling water test was just for fun. It was a gospel album, so I had to waste it some how.

In my situation, it's just not feasible to spend hundreds on a RCM. Nor do I have the room for one.
 
HamDog said:
Please elaborate. How was the record being held? Was it really hot outside? I have 25 records left for testing, but I highly doubt I can make any of them warp by holding it in my hand!



This is AK! We can criticize anything! I used to spend some time making sure the flowing water is luke warm. But now I don't worry about it if it's on the warmer side. I now understand our beloved vinyl isn't as fragile as I had thought. And I think warmer water....even a bit hot, can actually clean better and not do any damage.

The boiling water test was just for fun. It was a gospel album, so I had to waste it some how.

In my situation, it's just not feasible to spend hundreds on a RCM. Nor do I have the room for one.
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Of course people can criticize anything.

I was hoping I was getting the point across that it doesn't mean we have to let them run our lives for us or need to justify what we do.

The fact is vinyl is quite resilient. But there are limits.

Almost like plastic with a memory.

That's why a lot of remedies for fixing warped records don't work.
I even tried using a hair dryer. It flattened it when heated but as soon as it cooled, it retained the original warp.

Sorry if I sounded like I was trying to spoil your fun. :D
 
Don't panic AK members have used everything under the sun to clean records and I'm sure your not the first to use boiling hot water. At least you are useing expendable records in testing what happens with the various water temperatures and steam. From my experience what works is the chemicals in the cleaning fluid applied at room temperature and rinsing with distilled water at room temperature each followed by vacuming. If I had to resort to anything drastic like hot water and/or steam cleaning I'd consider the record a lost cause. The audio equipment you have doesn't look very thrift store, a RCM would be the least exspensive item on the list, splurge a little, save on the water bill and get yourself a NittyGritty or VPI RCM.
 
terra1 said:
Sorry if I sounded like I was trying to spoil your fun. :D
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You bring up some good points. And don't worry, nothing can spoil my fun, as long as I don't damage any good records.

majick47 said:
From my experience what works is the chemicals in the cleaning fluid applied at room temperature and rinsing with distilled water at room temperature each followed by vacuming. If I had to resort to anything drastic like hot water and/or steam cleaning I'd consider the record a lost cause. The audio equipment you have doesn't look very thrift store, a RCM would be the least exspensive item on the list, splurge a little, save on the water bill and get yourself a NittyGritty or VPI RCM.
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I wouldn't go as far as cleaning records under the sink or steaming as "drastic measures" as it gets the job done just fine. I'm sure a good selection of chemicals is important. But for me, the Palmolive is good enough. I do hear a drastic improvement. But I have to admit that I never tried a good RCM.

My album collection consists of 200-300 records. I just can't justify $500+ for a RCM. And living in a small apartment, I just don't have the room. I'm in the process of digitizing my albums and then storing it away to save space. I really can't hear a difference between my digitized tracks and the album on my turntable. I think my digitized tracks sound a lot better than any CD. All my digitized tracks are in FLAC format in 24Bit 96Khz. But I know that discussion is for another thread.

I'm not knockin RCMs. It's just not for me.
 
Size wise the NittyGritty is slightly smaller than the VPI but neither one would take up much space. Audiogon is an excellent place to purchase a preowned RCM for less than $500, I see them listed weekly many for $300-$400 with very light use. It's a rare occasion for anyone to revert back to other methods after they get a RCM. As many owners have said it was the best audio investment they ever made and there was a big improvement in the sound of the records they cleaned.
 
Well I have a steam cleaner on wheels and a 2800psi pressure washer - but I'll continue to dribble some D4 and wipe with the microfiber towel. Quick
 
I have a buddy who uses wood glue to clean his GW finds. I would not dare try this, but h swears by it. I think he sniffing glue, though.
 
Steam cleaning should not result in any warping as long as care is taken not to get the steam nozzle too close to the vinyl. About 12" works with my Perfection steamer.

I found out that you CAN warp a record with the steamer if it's much closer, by doing so on an early Verve Ella pressing...sigh. Live and learn.

I always finish up with the Nitty Gritty RCM
 
Fasterdamnit said:
Steam works very well! We also use a Shark on the really nasty ones. Yes, they warp a bit while steaming, but return to normal as they cool. Do not fear the steam! Dozens cleaned this way and no damage.
Click to expand...

It's not steam. It's hot water vapor, which is MUCH cooler than steam.
 
Be aware that over 80degC the vinyl compound are more and more getting into a Glass Transition state. This means if unlucky the information on the record can be altered or slightly damaged. You could wash a Beethoven 9th and end up with Fleetwood Mac.

gusten
 
"Test 2: Full hot water from under the sink. Sure, depending on your hot water heater and it's distance, we'll all get different temperature readings. I live in a 7-unit apartment building, and I didn't get any temp readings, but it's hot water. The record warps a little if kept under the running water for longer than 8-10 seconds. A trick is to keep spinning it. A tad bit of warping does take place, but within a few seconds of removing it from the running hot water, it gets it's shape back. I was really surprised by this. I thought it would ruin the record, but it didn't."

I have done that, did not hurt any LP. I also noticed it seems to relieve the original warp in some cases.
 
I Experimented With Steam.....

I cleaned several records with steam early this year, and some of them were done in an aggressive manner. I noticed that a record would warp while under steam, but once it cooled down the record would return to its original shape. This has been reported in other steam cleaning threads, so it was something I expected.

Well I discovered a problem later this summer. My table was placed where a decent amount of sunlight hit the table from a large picture window. Well when the record was in the sunlight for a few minutes, it would warp! Once it was taken off the table and out of the light, the warp would subside. So it appears the steam cleaning has created a warp that is very sensitive to temperature, and can return at a far lower level than one would expect.

I find it amazing the range of excuses people come up with not to buy a good RCM. The Nitty Gritty has such a small footprint, that I have trouble understanding how anyone would have issues finding a place to put it. The combination of RCM and good cleaning fluids is such a great combination for cleaning vinyl, it really cannot be beat, especially for the overall cost. Sure its not cheap, but it is one of the less expensive ways to spend money in this hobby. Heck there are people who tie up more money in power cords or speaker wire, or even speaker stands than what a RCM costs. I know that I would never willingly give mine up.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
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