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Coming soon to AK! Phono Preamp Shootout!

ehoove

ehoove

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Today I ordered a DB Systems DB 8 phono preamp tailored to my Sumiko Blackbird. It should arrive by next weekend due to the slight modification in gain etc. When it arrives we will proceed to have a shootout between the Bellari V129 w/ Mullard re-issue tube, the Cambridge Audio Azur 640p, and the DB systems DB8. The shootout will be in two phases - first using the normal gain MM using the Sumiko Blackbird in the TD160 hotrod, then the Denon DL103r in the Technics SL1700 mk2 using the high output moving coil section of the 640p compared to the other two using a Music Fidelity AC1 moving coil head amp, then the 640p MM section using the AC1 head amp as well. I think it will be a very interesting shootout, and I hope to be assisted by Blue Shadow to get a second pair of ears on the output.
Since these Phono Pre-amps are both affordable and well regarded it should be a rare opportunity to compare them in a controlled environment.

To be continued,
Jim
 
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I'll be looking forward to this with interest, ehoove. We got a 640P recently and I was thinking about writing up something but ran headlong into the problem not having a frame of reference upon which to draw. I don't count the battery operated RS 42-2111 preamp as worthwhile comparator. :rolleyes: I'd appreciate if you'd mention the kind of speakers you'll be using and perhaps a bit of a description of the way they normally present themselves. Ie: are they laid back or more forward; that sort of thing. Thanks.
 
4dryhme said:
I'll be looking forward to this with interest, ehoove. We got a 640P recently and I was thinking about writing up something but ran headlong into the problem not having a frame of reference upon which to draw. I don't count the battery operated RS 42-2111 preamp as worthwhile comparator. :rolleyes: I'd appreciate if you'd mention the kind of speakers you'll be using and perhaps a bit of a description of the way they normally present themselves. Ie: are they laid back or more forward; that sort of thing. Thanks.
Click to expand...

The system will be my main rig with tri-amped Magnapan MGIIIa's with dual NHT W2 passive subwoofers. Big soundstage with excellent attack and very good back to front definition and solid imaging using a Marantz SA 8003 SACD as a reference point.

I will do a second shootout using my CR2040 driving a pair of NS 690's which image a bit better than the Maggies, but don't throw the huge soundstage as well, nor produce the dynamic range the Maggies do.

Regards,
Jim
 
Ooh, I too am looking forward to this! Never heard of DB Systems, but I have considered the Bellari VP-129 many times as it seems to be the most affordable tube phono pre and Cambridge 640p is said to be an excellent performer also at an affordable price. What's the price range for the DB if you don't mind my asking?
:lurk:
 
This could be interesting. I know you have a lot of decent phono gear to listen to. Gotta evaluate those phono stages first though.
 
Andy_H said:
Ooh, I too am looking forward to this! Never heard of DB Systems, but I have considered the Bellari VP-129 many times as it seems to be the most affordable tube phono pre and Cambridge 640p is said to be an excellent performer also at an affordable price. What's the price range for the DB if you don't mind my asking?
:lurk:
Click to expand...

With the adjusted specs for the Blackbird and the standard power supply around $190.00 Add $185 for the regulated power supply. It is very well thought of over at Vinyl Engine.

Regards,
Jim
 
I recently purchsed a used/refurbished DB-2A & 6A, MM @ 43db. or run a restored Scott tube integrated with a DB-8 MM @ 49db.
 
Slowhead said:
I recently purchsed a used/refurbished DB-2A & 6A, MM @ 43db. or run a restored Scott tube integrated with a DB-8 MM @ 49db.
Click to expand...

My DB8 arrived today and is of the 43db (+$5) variety to compensate for the Sumiko Blackbirds lower output of 2.5 mv. Total outlay with shipping was $181. While this unit is not much to look at, It certainly sounds great without any burn-in of any kind other than the suggested 5 minute warm up.

Initial thoughts comparing the DB8 to the Bellari VP129 w/Mullard re-issue tube are as follows - The DB8 is a much faster preamp - transients are sharper and decay is more defined. There seems to be more control across the spectrum with lots of mid/ upper detail but not as in your face as the Bellari. Bass has more detail and control as well, while exhibiting a solidity, and lack of bloat that the Bellari could not accomplish. The DB8 has a totally black background compared to the Bellari which is no slouch in that department as well.

The Bellari VP129 is to me a wonderful phono Pre for the $$, but so far the DB8 is a clear cut above in the main system which is a very revealing system.

More to follow after a few days burn-in........................

Regards,
Jim
 
The final observations

The shootout is complete and here are my observations:

47K loading using the Main system with the Blackbird

Observations:
1. DB systems DB8: Strong imaging, Realistic sound stage wide and deep, suburb attack and decay. The most live presentation though a bit cool with smooth cymbals that were very realistic, Vocals were in the room with you. Tight solid bass with great detail in the upper registers. Ron Carter's Etudes is amazing! Super Black Background, this preamp is dead quiet! Cost $181

2. Bellari VP129 / Mullard reissue: Great imaging with nice wide sound stage. solid top end with less decay. Mids are the units forte, with a bit undefined bottom end compared to the DB Systems. This has been my go to preamp for 2 years. very quiet with low noise. Cost $150 used + 16.00 for tube upgrade.

3 Cambridge Audio 640P: This is a very nice Phono Preamp with no faults. It is a bit quieter than the Bellari, but just does not make me smile. There is nothing to cause a frown as it is a very solid preamp with a black background. Tight sound stage with good imaging, but not very deep. Cost $125 used

All three of these Preamps are worthy contenders for the money, but the DB Systems DB8 is a cut above the others in my system. How good is it? I'm sending it back for the Power supply upgrade to add some more headroom to it (+$185.00)
Hope this has been helpful, but keep in mind this is using them in my main rig. (see signature)

Please feel free to PM me with any questions!

Regards,
Jim
 
Very nice Jim, an enjoyable read. So I understand you feel the DB is the superior preamp, but do you think that's simply because it performs better, or that you find yourself preferring the virtues of solid state over tubes, to a degree? I just ask because your description of the DB preamps sound is what I've discovered I really prefer over the typical tube sound, although I like both.

A lot of the most reputable names in hi-fi seem to put a huge emphasis on power supplies, so I'm betting that's going to be a great upgrade. What exactly are they replacing? Is it the entire power supply section or just certain components?
 
Also, because I know Jim will forgive me, I'm going to be the jerk who does this:


:worthless


Yeah yeah, not much to look at, but I want to look at it anyway!
 
ehoove said:
...the DB Systems DB8 is a cut above the others in my system. How good is it? I'm sending it back for the Power supply upgrade to add some more headroom to it (+$185.00)
Click to expand...

I saw this coming. No more college bills to pay and the new graduate has a very nice job and you didn't get the upgrade from jump street was the surprise.

Glad you are happy with your new phono stage. We'll keep looking for more out of that system of yours.

I might agree a bit with Mr. Lin about the clarity of ss vs. the 'tube sound' since you have frequently talked about how revealing different chunks of gear are, such as the Yamaha speakers you picked up recently. We all know the Magneplanars show the capabilities of the system they are in. I guess you need to try some nice tube gear, main preamp, or something to see if that is something in your system.
 
Mr. Lin said:
Yeah yeah, not much to look at, but I want to look at it anyway!
Click to expand...

Well at least you know the Db unit is just a black box and nothing to look at but the comment is justified what with three different units, one brightly colored tube unit and two SS units.
 
Pics of the Contenders

Mr. Lin said:
Also, because I know Jim will forgive me, I'm going to be the jerk who does this:


:worthless


Yeah yeah, not much to look at, but I want to look at it anyway!
Click to expand...

Here are some pics! Note : The DB Systems preamp is not very visible in my rack so temporarily moved it so you could see it
Regards,
Jim
 
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