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Common vintage MM cart worthy of a high end setup?

the keester

I dig music.
I have a Thorens td124 with an SME 3012 ( i also have an SME 3009 II and improved)

I already have a Midas DL103R and a Koetsu Black MC.

What are some classic MM carts that are worthy contenders for this setup?
 
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I'm not good at working out cart/arm compliance matches, but the Shure V15 and Stanton 681 are extremely well-regarded cartridges (though I think the 681 is technically moving iron...).
 
I'm not good at working out cart/arm compliance matches, but the Shure V15 and Stanton 681 are extremely well-regarded cartridges (though I think the 681 is technically moving iron...).

I'm concerned the longer SME 3012 may be a bit much for the compliant Shure V15 and Stanton 681?

The 3009 would be no problem. I dunno about the 3012.:scratch2:
 
Delihaus,

The Stanton 681 EEE-S II works just fine on a SME 3012. One of our local radio station uses this setup in their production room. Never had any issues.
 
Average effective mass of 3012 tonearm around 14g

So cartridges between compliance of 11cu to 25cu are a good match

with perfection being around 15cu to 20cu.

If you have damping (fluid damping) on your arm (not an unusual option for an SME I believe) - then you can extend that - perhaps another 5 down and another 10cu up.

A cartridge with a damper brush (Shures, Stantons, Pickerings, and even some styli for AT14's) will provide an alternative if the arm itself is not damped.

So some choices....

Shure V15 series - fitted with a Jico SAS stylus (compliance 22cu)
Also M series Shures fitted with a Jico SAS (M97xE for example)

AT12/13/14/15/20 along with signet members of the family- with Shibata
Compliance I am told varies upwards as you go up the range, starting at around 17cu for the lower ones - I believe the 20's may be circa 25cu or more.

ADC XLM series - preferably one of the better "Gold Body" cartridges (a ZLM or SuperXLM if you can find one is great too)
Then select from a range of NOS styli or 3rd party styli that are available for them - Original NOS styli can range from 50cu (SuperXLM Mk I) down to 8cu for some of the basic conicals - the better ones will be circa 25cu

AT120/130/140/150/155/145/440 etc... along with the Signet members of the family
Again lots of stylus options.... the 15x styli are the very best with exotic cantilevers (beryllium or boron depending on model/vintage) and the best needles. The 440MLa is very good value, with a tapered cantilever and a nice Line Contact needle. Again the compliance rises as you go up the range - and compliance specs are hard to come by - if the arm has damping you should be ok even at the top end of these which I think are probably circa 25cu maybe even as high as 30cu

Ortofon OM30/40, VMS30mkII, 2M Bronze/Black, Digitrac 300SE
These are all quite similar - the generators are all MI, the styli are all LineContact of various varieties, again a tendency towards higher compliance 25cu 30cu - the VMS30 is the exception at around 14cu but the styli are now quite expensive.
The Digitrac is a sleeper - basically an OM in p-mount guise with a stylus that may be competitive with an OM30 - The bodies have a reputation for "flakiness" - but the stylus can be fitted (with very minor surgery - cut off the plastic tab) to an OM series body. And OM bodies without styli can usually be picked up for $10.... the 300SE stylus for $80 - and you have a sub $100 cartridge combo that can compete with the current 2M Bronze/Black at 1/4 the price.

Empire 4000D/1000Z/999Z.... others
There's a bunch of choices in the old empire range... look for the ones that have a Line Contact or Shibata stylus available for them (LAC / Shibata).
For some of these the styli are very expensive/rare - for others there are reasonably priced options.
eg: the 4000D and the 2000 family share styli fittings, and 4000D shibata's can be had for around $75 or less.

Grado cartridges - I havn't had a chance to play with these... but well reputed - compliance around 20cu

Soundsmith SMCC family
These are the descendants of the famous B&O MMC cartridges - big reputation - would love to try these at some stage - available in 2 compliances - specify when ordering.

To take advantage of MM/MI cartridges you will need:

1) Low capacitance cables to the phono stage
2) Phono stage where the Capacitive load can be disabled (to achieve a total capacitance of around 100pf)
3) Phono stage that allows impedance loading with values both above and below the standard 47k (Shure M97's I am told sound best with 68k, and Grados with around 20k..... )

Finally (controversially) I believe one criteria for quality with MM/MI cartridges is low inductance - lower is better.
This is by no means a cast iron rule - 2M are around 700mH which is high inductance...
BUT: low inductance in combination with low capacitance allows for more extended frequency response along with very good extended phase linearity.

Hope this helps!

Good luck with it

David
 
The Digitrac is a good call. I'm fortunate enough to have a good 280 body on my linear tracking TT, it's one of my favorite cartridges.
 
Delihaus,

The Stanton 681 EEE-S II works just fine on a SME 3012. One of our local radio station uses this setup in their production room. Never had any issues.

Average effective mass of 3012 tonearm around 14g

So cartridges between compliance of 11cu to 25cu are a good match

with perfection being around 15cu to 20cu.

If you have damping (fluid damping) on your arm (not an unusual option for an SME I believe) - then you can extend that - perhaps another 5 down and another 10cu up....



Good to know- thanks!
 
Some great recommendations here - if we're specifically talking about MM's, then I'd also throw in the following;

The Stanton 881S

I know it's not really vintage but the AT 150MLX is tough to beat, especially if you like the AT "bright 'n' breezy" approach.

And as a follow up to Dlaloum's excellent and extensive list, I'd pop in a vote for a stock version of the Shure V15, I've mentioned elsewhere that the Shure Ultra VST V 5 is my fav. MM.

Fun thread
Cheers
Dave
 
any number of carts would fill the bill.

adcXLM the original was wonderful, later versions not necessary.

stanton 681EEE,881S excellent sounding.

AT170ML, 150ML great sounding.

many others but these i have actual experience with.
 
Never forget the Grace F9E or especially the F9 Ruby.The Nagaokas are nice cartridges also.
 
I don't know the effective tip mass or the weights of these, but the Signet line of Audio Technica was good. I had great luck with the TK-7e. I know they had an TK-7ea variant. Also, the customers that bought TK 9's were very happy. I'm not sure if they were MM though. They may have been MC cartridges with a replaceable stylus assy.
 
AKG P8ES

Technics EPC-205 MkIII

Grado Signature

AKG P100

Garrott Brothers P77

Stanton 981 LZS


I was a moving-coil man(back in the day)so I didn't get to use any then(other than a Stanton 681EEE).The best I heard(of the very,very few that I heard) was the Grado Signature.

I wonder what the SME users would say is a good match for the arm,because it might well be that what is needed is a cartridge which brings-out the best of the arm,whilst having the best of it's talents brought-out by the SME.

In other words which vintage MM loves the SME?
 
AKG P8ES... good call; finicky but great when they were up to snuff. Another one in a similar mold, the Sonus Blue.
 
Didn't Shure and SME work together for a while?

I have some recollection of having seen something about a Shure SME headshell or maybe a SME Shure headshell - which came with a V15 of some variety....

I have a feeling that the Shure SME combination might be a very good match and may in fact have been the way the system was designed and voiced.
 
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