Compare Snell Type D to Thiel CS 2.3 speakers

[JeffNTaxes]

Looking for opinions between Snell Type D and Thiel CS 2.3 speakers for music listening.

Currently using the Snells with Superphon Revelation Basic Dual Mono > Superphon DM200, Systemdek IIX. I recently added a Martin Logan sub to handle more bass than the Snells were, and it sounds very good. Mainly listening to vinyl with an emphasis on jazz.

Question is whether the Thiels would be an improvement over the Snell Type D's with this setup. I have a chance to grab a pair in excellent condition and plan to A/B them when I can, but looking for experienced opinions from you all first.


If you are experienced with either, all comments welcome.

Thanks for any answers/questions.
-Jeff

 

[Akustic]

They're very different speakers ..

Personally, I have always preferred the Snells to the Theil's ..
The Theil's are too dry and clinical to my ear ... the Snell's are warmer .. And your Superphon front end is going to expose both speakers ..
I would expect that pairing the Snell's with the Superphon would be a neutral, but more synergistic, and musical system..
( I've owned the excellent preamp but never the amp )

YMMV ..

 

[JeffNTaxes]

They're very different speakers ..

Personally, I have always preferred the Snells to the Theil's ..
The Theil's are too dry and clinical to my ear ... the Snell's are warmer .. And your Superphon front end is going to expose both speakers ..
I would expect that pairing the Snell's with the Superphon would be a neutral, but more synergistic, and musical system..
( I've owned the excellent preamp but never the amp )

YMMV ..

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the opinion. I'm hoping to A/B soon and will report back.
I am not motivated to do the switch, it's just that they're available, and you know how it is. I have to hear them.

 

[Oerets]

I also prefer Snell speakers over Theil as a rule. Agree they are different feeling speakers and with one having 90db spl and the other 87db. (Snell 90db)
Expect to see a difference from this alone.

I found Snell's are easy to power, the Theil's love power needing some juice to get them to open up.

Notice a subwoofer in the picture. Any head to head should be done with this off I should think.

 

[JeffNTaxes]

I also prefer Snell speakers over Theil as a rule. Agree they are different feeling speakers and with one having 90db spl and the other 87db. (Snell 90db)
Expect to see a difference from this alone.

I found Snell's are easy to power, the Theil's love power needing some juice to get them to open up.

Notice a subwoofer in the picture. Any head to head should be done with this off I should think.

Yes, that's a Martin Logan Descent i sub. With proper room treatment I may not even need it, but it really helps with the current configuration.
I will definitely not be using it during the test.

Thanks!

 

[spark1]

I also prefer Snell speakers over Theil as a rule. Agree they are different feeling speakers and with one having 90db spl and the other 87db. (Snell 90db)
Expect to see a difference from this alone.

I found Snell's are easy to power, the Theil's love power needing some juice to get them to open up.

Notice a subwoofer in the picture. Any head to head should be done with this off I should think.

So the Thiels need to be played loud to open up? More power means louder, right?

Or do you mean that the Thiels are a significantly more difficult load, and therefore need an amp capable of gracefully handling that kind of load?

I believe that Stereophile measured the sensitivity of the 2.3 at 90dB.

 

[Oerets]

So the Thiels need to be played loud to open up? More power means louder, right?

Or do you mean that the Thiels are a significantly more difficult load, and therefore need an amp capable of gracefully handling that kind of load?

I believe that Stereophile measured the sensitivity of the 2.3 at 90dB.

This is where my info came from, https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs23-loudspeaker-specifications

""Thiel CS2.3: Three-way, floorstanding loudspeaker. Drive-units (all anodized aluminum): 1" (25mm) dome tweeter, coincident with 4.5" (114mm) cone midrange; 8" (204mm) cone woofer; 9" (230mm) passive radiator. Crossover frequencies: 900Hz, 3kHz. Crossover slopes: Acoustic first-order, 6dB/octave. Frequency response: 37Hz-20kHz, ±2dB. Phase response: minimum phase ±5 degrees. Nominal impedance: 4 ohms (3 ohms minimum). Sensitivity: 87dB/2.83V/1m. Recommended power: 100-400W.""

They seemed to be muddy no detail or bass when using a small power amp at low levels. Give it more juice in reserve and then at low levels it a different story.

 

[spark1]

This is where my info came from, https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs23-loudspeaker-specifications

""Thiel CS2.3: Three-way, floorstanding loudspeaker. Drive-units (all anodized aluminum): 1" (25mm) dome tweeter, coincident with 4.5" (114mm) cone midrange; 8" (204mm) cone woofer; 9" (230mm) passive radiator. Crossover frequencies: 900Hz, 3kHz. Crossover slopes: Acoustic first-order, 6dB/octave. Frequency response: 37Hz-20kHz, ±2dB. Phase response: minimum phase ±5 degrees. Nominal impedance: 4 ohms (3 ohms minimum). Sensitivity: 87dB/2.83V/1m. Recommended power: 100-400W.""

They seemed to be muddy no detail or bass when using a small power amp at low levels. Give it more juice in reserve and then at low levels it a different story.

Same review shows measured sensitivity at 90dB.

 

[Akustic]

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the opinion. I'm hoping to A/B soon and will report back.
I am not motivated to do the switch, it's just that they're available, and you know how it is. I have to hear them.

Wise man to keep the Snells, and compare directly with the Theil's in your system ...
They should sound quite different from each other .. at least they did to me ..

Direct comparison is the only way .. and make it for as long as possible with the new Theil's ..
If possible make it long enough to listen to a true variety of music. ..
No second guessing if you've had enough time time to really listen to them ..
I've done it, but a day really isn't enough ...

Enjoy that system .. you're messing with Classic's either way through Classic electronics.
(And I mean Classic's in the sense that they are still some of the best sounding pieces available .. not "Vintage" nostalgia pieces)

 

[Akustic]

Also if you have both sets of speakers in the house at the same time the very best way to compare them immediately is to hook up a different speaker to each channel ..
Just turn the volume buttons up and down for an instant comparison ..

The Superhon is dual mono so there should be no chance of bothering the amp in any way with differing loads ..
I've even done it with stereo amps with no ill effect ..

Everyone seems to think that a mono source has to be used if the channels are different, but I've never found that to be the case ..
Modern recordings have almost everything mixed in to the middle anyway ..
I do it all of the time to evaluate cables with pretty much all of my usual music and I've never been bothered with something that is mixed predominantly in to only
one channel.

Enjoy ..

 

[Akustic]

They're very different speakers ..

Personally, I have always preferred the Snells to the Theil's ..
The Theil's are too dry and clinical to my ear ... the Snell's are warmer .. And your Superphon front end is going to expose both speakers ..
I would expect that pairing the Snell's with the Superphon would be a neutral, but more synergistic, and musical system..
( I've owned the excellent preamp but never the amp )

YMMV ..

Stan Warren was something of an electronic wizard with an Ear ..
That Superphon was my first truly fine preamp ... for the money it was unbeatable.

 

[Akustic]

I also prefer Snell speakers over Theil as a rule. Agree they are different feeling speakers and with one having 90db spl and the other 87db. (Snell 90db)
Expect to see a difference from this alone.

I found Snell's are easy to power, the Theil's love power needing some juice to get them to open up.

Notice a subwoofer in the picture. Any head to head should be done with this off I should think.

A volume difference .. yes... but other than that, speaker efficiency shouldn't be making any audible difference here.
The Superphon should be coasting with plenty of headroom for either speaker .. That's a pretty capable amp.
If we were talking about a 35 wpc tube amp things would be different, but even then, the subwoofer would be handling the true big power needs unless it's unpowered.

 

[JeffNTaxes]

Wise man to keep the Snells, and compare directly with the Theil's in your system ...
They should sound quite different from each other .. at least they did to me ..

Direct comparison is the only way .. and make it for as long as possible with the new Theil's ..
If possible make it long enough to listen to a true variety of music. ..
No second guessing if you've had enough time time to really listen to them ..
I've done it, but a day really isn't enough ...

Enjoy that system .. you're messing with Classic's either way through Classic electronics.
(And I mean Classic's in the sense that they are still some of the best sounding pieces available .. not "Vintage" nostalgia pieces)

Very good to hear, thanks! I went with the Superphon and Systemdek on the advice of a Chicago area member here who sold them to me "only because I have another set". I found the Snells in as-new condition from another seller in NW Suburbs of Chicago and brought them back here when I moved back east to MA where they were made. In fact Snell began in my small hometown north of Boston. I added the (powered) sub recently to have more control over bass, and it's been a huge improvement as well, though as I said I don't doubt it's a band aid on bad room treatment. That system without the sub should be great in a properly treated room.

 

[Akustic]

Very good to hear, thanks! I went with the Superphon and Systemdek on the advice of a Chicago area member here who sold them to me "only because I have another set". I found the Snells in as-new condition from another seller in NW Suburbs of Chicago and brought them back here when I moved back east to MA where they were made. In fact Snell began in my small hometown north of Boston. I added the (powered) sub recently to have more control over bass, and it's been a huge improvement as well, though as I said I don't doubt it's a band aid on bad room treatment. That system without the sub should be great in a properly treated room.

A truly well integrated and well setup sub is always an improvement unless your Mains are as big as refrigerators and happen to have 18" drivers.
The extra power is almost always beneficial too ...
Why not ??

Room treatment can tune the bass notes, but it doesn't do much to add or subtract it ..

 

[SleeperSupra]

This is where my info came from, https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs23-loudspeaker-specifications

""Thiel CS2.3: Three-way, floorstanding loudspeaker. Drive-units (all anodized aluminum): 1" (25mm) dome tweeter, coincident with 4.5" (114mm) cone midrange; 8" (204mm) cone woofer; 9" (230mm) passive radiator. Crossover frequencies: 900Hz, 3kHz. Crossover slopes: Acoustic first-order, 6dB/octave. Frequency response: 37Hz-20kHz, ±2dB. Phase response: minimum phase ±5 degrees. Nominal impedance: 4 ohms (3 ohms minimum). Sensitivity: 87dB/2.83V/1m. Recommended power: 100-400W.""

They seemed to be muddy no detail or bass when using a small power amp at low levels. Give it more juice in reserve and then at low levels it a different story.

They like high current amplification.

 

[SilverandOld]

Did you ever make this comparison? Would like to hear your opinion of the differences in character of these speakers. I have the chance to purchase a decent set of Snell type D's and it may help me decide.

 

[JeffNTaxes]

Did you ever make this comparison? Would like to hear your opinion of the differences in character of these speakers. I have the chance to purchase a decent set of Snell type D's and it may help me decide.

I never did, and they were sold elsewhere. How much are the D's you're looking at? I absolutely love mine.

 

[SilverandOld]

I never did, and they were sold elsewhere. How much are the D's you're looking at? I absolutely love mine.

Asking $750. Not unreasonably priced, based on the limited research I've done so far. And they appear to be in good condition for the age, but they are the black cabinet finish. Not my favorite finish.

 

[JeffNTaxes]

Asking $750. Not unreasonably priced, based on the limited research I've done so far. And they appear to be in good condition for the age, but they are the black cabinet finish. Not my favorite finish.

Yeah I also prefer to natural finish, which is what I have. When looking at somewhat under-appreciated gear prices I ask myself two questions about price - what's the market say it's worth, and what would it cost me to get the same level of quality in a brand that everyone knows and wants today? The Snells fall into that category. I'd say they're around what the market will pay for them these days at that price, possibly $50-$100 high. As for what you'd pay today for the same quality I'd say they're an absolute steal at $1,000.

 

[SilverandOld]

Yeah I also prefer to natural finish, which is what I have. When looking at somewhat under-appreciated gear prices I ask myself two questions about price - what's the market say it's worth, and what would it cost me to get the same level of quality in a brand that everyone knows and wants today? The Snells fall into that category. I'd say they're around what the market will pay for them these days at that price, possibly $50-$100 high. As for what you'd pay today for the same quality I'd say they're an absolute steal at $1,000.

Thanks for the information. The seller is down to $450 so I'm planning to pull the trigger as soon as I confirm the working condition. What would you compare the Snell type D to as being most similar in another speaker brand?