• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

CONICAL LOVE -Who loves running a conical needle on a cartridge most don't???

illinoisteve

illinoisteve

Super Member
If you have a conical (spherical) design stylus ( whether original or aftermarket ) that you just L*O*V*E listening to on a stereo cartridge about which everybody else seems to be arguing over what elliptical or other design needle is best for -- please tell all about it!

What's great about that stylus/cartridge combination? What do you find that conical providing soundwise that can be lacking in so-called higher level needles? Does that conical excel in how it matches up with certain kinds of music, or certain kinds or eras of recordings? What does your brand of "conical love" say about you as an audiophile?

For those of you who listen to many conical needles, do you find that certain cartridge brands, or certain models or model ranges bring out the best in the conical needles available for them?

And here is the BIG question: What are people who never listen to conical needles MISSING OUT ON?
.
.
.
.
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
My friend the opera enthusiast liked the Shure M95G on his AR XA for listening to female vocal.

I have an Audio Technica AT 30 cartridge with a 0.6 mil nude mount conical stylus which is being use for jazz LPs.

Sounds great with vocal. :music:
file.php


( not my photo - borrowed from VE )
 
I think your conical love post grew out of comments some of us made about the conical Shure V15 recently. I've only owned 2 conicals and while I enjoyed my conical V15 I'm only speaking from misty memory. My impressions might of come the bragging rights of having something unique and different. But I did prefer the conical

The DL 103 is another story as I'm playing LPs with it everyday. I really love the DL103 but I can't really say how much of that has to do with the conical stylist or the quality of the diamond?, or the stiffness of the cantilever?, or am I just a Denon fanboy? Like the last post I also listen to opera, jazz vocals and Joni Mitchell. Maybe conical do better job with vocal music? Food for thought.

The idea that my bifocal eyes can line up a diamond that is almost too hard to see ( except when it collects record dust), well maybe a conical stylist is more forgiving in its set up? That would be my argument. I'll admit it's weak because I find the DL103 very finicky when it come to set up, a mm here or their makes a big difference.

I've recently bought a DL 301 and I'm setting up 2 TT in my main system more later.
 
I really like the Shure N35X for playing 7 inch 45 rpm singles. It seems able to render some of the really loudly cut ones without the distortion a lot of other needles provide. It also downplays the wear to some degree and its not hard on styrene singles. Downplaying the noise means that it can also sometimes make worn LPs more listenable.

Balifly, do you find that there is some magic in the nude mounted conical? I've really been interested in trying one but couldn't yet bring myself to spend the $60 for the N95GD since no one could tell me if the GD sounds any better than the regular G. There is also apparently a waiting list for those.
 
Smooth. I'm not a detail oriented guy, but prefer an overall smooth presentation. When people say that I'm missing something from the recording, I just laugh. For me it's about the overall presentation that's important. Tubes, easy to push speakers, vinyl, and conical(or fatter ellipticals) styi are my cup of tea. Not just for older, more beat up records, but for everything. Shure M44, M3 or M7D, Stanton 500, I really love these carts. They have bold presentations, they have louder outputs which make them perfect for vintage phono's like the ones in my Fisher gear. Ultimately, I find them to be just a lot more fun.
 
Having heard the Shure V 15 and the 103 I like them. I havent head them in my system. That being said I am partial to the Stereohedrons.. The Elipticals are nice but just not as deep a sound stage .. Now I am comparing the Stantons.. It just works in my ears ! The Pickerings S styli are good also but nothing so far brings me to the edge like my EEEs
 
MudSlideSlim said:
I think your conical love post grew out of comments some of us made about the conical Shure V15 recently. ....
Click to expand...

You're close, MudSlideSlim, only to the extent that Shure figured into my thinking. First, I love the sound of my Shure M3D, especially on early mono and stereo LPs...and as you know conicals were all that were made for it. And also, I did run across a forum posting recently where someone said how he preferred a certain conical stylus on his cartridge, but he was talking about an M75 cart...and it was on a different audio forum.

Then, additionally, recently in a PM conversation with another AKer the question of whether a certain Stanton needle was a conical or an elliptical came up. Stanton's specs don't say, and it seems to sound as good as a similar number one would assume was elliptical by a suffix used in the part number. So is the former one an unusually good conical?

Then there was my own experience with a couple of carts (one an Empire and one a Pickering) I was thinking of trading with a friend. I was certain each had the cheap -- either original or aftermarket -- conical stylus installed. Before trading them, I mounted them and tested them. It's no exaggeration to say that I almost reconsidered the trade when I heard how good they sounded!
 
I had an Audio Technica CN5625AL that I really enjoyed. It was on a turntable I ended up selling so that's when I lost possession of it. It's a really easy to listen to cartridge. I want to buy another, though I don't know if it will pair well with my Dual 505 that is currently cartridge-less.

I wonder how the AT3400 sounds (conical that fits on the AT95E).
 
I kept quiet because I thought I was the only one. I'm a Luddite Cone-head. Smoother sounding, tougher, less expensive, easier to align, less worry, and grooves are built for them. I try to get cones for my MM cartridges. Some of my LOMC cartridges have options so their conical styluses are always nearby. Yes, their smoothness gets to me. They do not bite. Good to see that others appreciate them.
 
Currently I'm running three AT carts on three Technics DD's.. One has a shibata stylus, one is the AT mono for LP and one is the AT mono for 78's. I also sometimes swap out the AT shibata for a Stanton 681 with a conical stylus.

I use the Stanton primarily for older stereo LP's. The shibata may wring out slightly more detail, especially in strings and cymbals, but it comes at the price of more noise. Every little tick and pop is picked up. The Stanton plays more quietly.

The AT mono is the best solution for mono LP's and 45's. Played a stack of 45's yesterday that were graded by playing them with the AT shibata. I writed the grades on the 45 sleeves, along with the place and date and purchase price. Every record play graded at least one grade higher when played with the AT mono. Records that were VG went to VG+ or VG++.
 
tubewade said:
I really like the Shure N35X for playing 7 inch 45 rpm singles. It seems able to render some of the really loudly cut ones without the distortion a lot of other needles provide. It also downplays the wear to some degree and its not hard on styrene singles. Downplaying the noise means that it can also sometimes make worn LPs more listenable.
Click to expand...

My M35X sounds spectacular on my Dual 1019. Seriously good.

I also love my GE VR-II mono cart on my Rek-O-Kut.

sberger said:
Smooth. I'm not a detail oriented guy, but prefer an overall smooth presentation. When people say that I'm missing something from the recording, I just laugh. For me it's about the overall presentation that's important. Tubes, easy to push speakers, vinyl, and conical(or fatter ellipticals) styi are my cup of tea. Not just for older, more beat up records, but for everything. Shure M44, M3 or M7D, Stanton 500, I really love these carts. They have bold presentations, they have louder outputs which make them perfect for vintage phono's like the ones in my Fisher gear. Ultimately, I find them to be just a lot more fun.
Click to expand...

orsonclapping.gif~c200
 
SSaxdude said:
I had an Audio Technica CN5625AL that I really enjoyed. It was on a turntable I ended up selling so that's when I lost possession of it. It's a really easy to listen to cartridge. I want to buy another, though I don't know if it will pair well with my Dual 505 that is currently cartridge-less.

I wonder how the AT3400 sounds (conical that fits on the AT95E).
Click to expand...

It's a great little cart but will be hard for a lot of people to get the most out of it with a compliance of only 5.
 
The conical that I use the most is a Shure SC35C with original U.S. made .6 mil stylus (of which I have about a dozen NOS) tracking at 4.5 grams in an Empire 398 turntable. I also use a M3D with a Jico N3 stylus (purchased directly from Jico) and for lighter tone-arms, a Shure M35X. All of which are very smooth sounding cartridges. I also have 2 rare NOS Shure N91GD (U.S. made NUDE .6 mil) styli that don’t get much use because they are impossible to find.

I’ll take a good quality conical over a run of the mill so called “elliptical” any day. The reason for this is that most of the “ellipticals” available are simply conicals with the leading and trailing edges ground flat to approximate an elliptical shape. This is done partially for marketing purposes and partially to reduce tip mass. The record groove still sees a conical profile.
 
dmckean said:
It's a great little cart but will be hard for a lot of people to get the most out of it with a compliance of only 5.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that ATs compliance specs aren't directly comparable to those by Shure, Ortofon, Pickering. The Shure N35Cs compliance is 5 and its stiff as a piece of 14 gage wire. But with experience of the AT3600s, both low and standard compliance versions, I would say the regular one is about 12CU and the low compliance one is about 10CU. Either of these will work fine on a medium mass tonearm. For reference, the AT95E is rated at the same compliance as the AT3600/AT91. Yes, I really like the AT3600 too but now there is something about the Shure M35X that really engages me.

Those using nude mounted conicals, tell us about the sound. Do they offer improvements similar to nude ellipticals and LCs?
 
dmckean said:
It's a great little cart but will be hard for a lot of people to get the most out of it with a compliance of only 5.
Click to expand...

That rating was given at 100 Hz; its value at the 10 Hz frequency used for calculating resonance would be about double that figure. Still not what one would normally choose for the ULM arm of the Dual 505. However, a local shop called the CN5625AL their bread and butter cartridge because the vast majority of their clientele just wanted something inexpensive that would work, and they found that the CN5625AL sounded great on just about everything they mounted it up on.

In my own home, I found that it sounded good and behaved very nicely on an LP12/Ittok, Well Tempered Record Player, Stanton STR8-80, Denon DP-300F, and the Rega RP3. It became my favorite cartridge for older records (especially Dynagroove, designed with a .7 mil conical in mind) once the Stanton 500.v3 was discontinued.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom