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Cornwalls, G9000DB, and RSL Speedwoofer 10S?

Zeke

Zeke

Demi-God of Brilliant BS!
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I recently got my Sansui repaired, have had Cornwalls for years, and can buy -- we all can -- two RSL Speedwoofer 10S subwoofers for $800 to my door. They have speaker level inputs with an adjustable 12 db slope I can take as low as 40 Hz and I would run in stereo.

Am I just being ridiculous? Is there really much below what my Cornwalls already do?

Because I want it.

https://rslspeakers.com/speedwoofer10s/
 
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I used to think like you did, and tried to use as much of the mains frequency range as possible, before crossing over to subs.

To really get the most benefit from subs, you'll want to crossover higher, to take the strain off the amplifier powering your mains, as well as free your mains from playing frequencies at their very lowest limit. If you've ever used a subsonic filter function, you'll notice the bass may not dig as deep, but what's there is actually tighter. Same concept, except the subs pickup the slack.

You should also consider, if you've ever used a graphic spectrum analyzer. Most recordings have very little info under 50Hz, so to make sure your sub actually picks up some slack, and it's not hooked up doing nothing, you'll want to cross over above 50Hz.
 
Zeke said:
I just read this (https://pitchfork.com/features/oped/9667-drop-the-bass-a-case-against-subwoofers/) and am all over the place on the issue. I know twin subwoofers isn't going to make damned bit of difference on my favorite, live, James Gang recording.


But what about Daft Punk?

Is there some, magical if not fully heard, room filling energy at 35 hz I'm not currently aware of?
Click to expand...

Article sounds like someone complaining about poorly integrated subwoofers, and then generalizing all subwoofers are bad. Most music doesn't even have much ultra low frequencies to begin with, look up how many instruments even dig that deep. Electronic music may have more. But I stick to the argument, with music, the major benefit of subs is to stop your main speakers from trying to play stuff at their distortion limits. Most high quality speakers can average around 1% distortion above 100Hz, but below that distortion shoots up in a logarithmic scale. Subwoofers allows your main speakers to play less of this high distortion range.
 
"Is there really much below what my Cornwalls already do?"

Yes the 20-40 hz octave, feeling the music!

Agreed the uTube version of the James Gang had nothing worthy below 50hz. Have you tried CDs or Vinyl for the same music?

Your Cornwalls use a 15in BR, I would choose 18 or 21in subs. However the 10in driver subs you are looking at have a 30day free trial. Try them and you will find out if you like/need subs. Have some fun listening to all your music for the trial period. :)
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I think you answered already with,......"I want it"!


Putting in a powered sub will help the lower volume experience. Allows the thump and punch to be felt and heard without the need to be overly loud.


One may be enough.
 
A 10 " sub would have to move twice as far as a 15 inch woofer at the same frequency if they were both in sealed boxes. So if you crossed over at 40 HZ then the RSL would have to move 4 times as far at 20 HZ. But since the Cornwall is ported the RSL may have to move 4 to 8 times as far back and forth. So if a Klipsch woofer moves an 1/8 of an inch the RSL may have to move one inch. Any one want to guess which is going to have the compromised compressed output amd is always behind the Klipsch woofer in time. Paul always warned a FM distortion. It may be not be as apparent in this case and considering you are never going to use much more than 10 watts with a Cornwall, how is that going to put a strain on a modern amp? That is unless you are using a SET tube amp. Then all I have to say is good luck. You also will note that no where does RSL tell you the efficiency of the speakers or what the speaker distortion is, only the amplifier distortion. That sub may have 20 to 100 % distortion at full output. We just don't know. But then Klipsch doesn't publish distortion figures either.
 
Modern speakers have less than 2% THD full range at I meter at close to 110 db. at 2 ft that would be closer to 115 db. Or about 100 db at the listening position. Where the Klipsch would only be putting out around. 78 db which a raised speaking voice level. Of course modern Klipsch should have much better performance, at least from the mid and tweeter and I imagine the woofer, too.
 
Hello Zeke, so it depends on what (year) Cornwall you have. The data sheets I posted were from the 70s. The woofers used were square magnet 2 inch voice coil K-33 from various manufacturers. In the early 80s the woofers changed to a round magnet K-33E.
Different specs for different models. Cornwall III was
  • FREQUENCY RESPONSE (+/- 4 dB) 34Hz - 20kHz.
  • SENSITIVITY. 102dB @ 2.83V / 1m.
  • POWER HANDLING (CONT/PEAK) 100W/400W.
  • MAXIMUM SPL. 119dB Continuous.
 

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It all depends where you place the speakers in the room as to how rapidly the bass quits or what the deviation is from the ideal response.
 
22frank said:
Hello Zeke, so it depends on what (year) Cornwall you have. The data sheets I posted were from the 70s. The woofers used were square magnet 2 inch voice coil K-33 from various manufacturers. In the early 80s the woofers changed to a round magnet K-33E.
Different specs for different models. Cornwall III was
  • FREQUENCY RESPONSE (+/- 4 dB) 34Hz - 20kHz.
  • SENSITIVITY. 102dB @ 2.83V / 1m.
  • POWER HANDLING (CONT/PEAK) 100W/400W.
  • MAXIMUM SPL. 119dB Continuous.
Click to expand...

Mine are 1984 vintage, which is approximately when Klipsch started switching from Cornwall "I" to Cornwall "II" using some mixed components? I have 100% CWI hardware but the crossover is B-2. If I recall correctly -- I haven't had these apart in years -- my tweeter and woofer are square magnets with the midrange having a round, grey, back end. Placement is in the corners of a very live (wood floor and stucco-like plaster walls that are unadorned) room of approximately 144 sq ft with large, floor-to-ceiling, windows that open up to my cigar smoking deck.

Things sound great so I'm not completely certain what I'm looking for. But I know that when Bruce Hornsby's bassist (JV Collier) slides down to a five string low "B" in the middle of Mandolin Rain, live? I can feel it.

I want that.

EDIT: I went ahead and ordered two RSL Speedwoofers. If they don't do what I want? There's a no harm/no foul send them back guarantee. The hard part will likely be integration as I don't want localization.
 
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Low B - around 31 cps, is in the rolled off response range of a Cornwall. You will hear it, just not as loud as say 50 to 200 cps.
Glad you "went" for it :).

 
My only complaint at the moment is that it has been [edit] SIX [/edit] business days and my items haven't shipped?

That just seems odd.
 
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Apparently, the website continues to report an order as "processing" even after it's, today, been delivered? I'll give a review once I get these things set up and do some listening.
 
Variable crossover has pretty vague markings but, if it's at all linear, we're at somewhere around 50-60 hz and down on the RSL's. Cornwalls in the corners at 45 degrees per Dope from Hope, subs flanking the inner side of each speaker. Gain at approximately 30% of knob volume (pretty low).

Yes, I can dial in pulsing and ridiculous club tones as if I were watching a John Wick movie but what I'm trying to do is make Track Two From the below album sound right. Experiments continue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invitation_(Jaco_Pastorius_album)
 
Amerika is the the track I get from your above suggestion. A sub woofer should not be needed to hear it.

 
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