cwall99
Addicted Member
Yeah, I know. That's why I added the thing about the windshield wipers.
could racks effect sound that much?
- Thread starter turbomustang
- Start date
Yeah, I know. That's why I added the thing about the windshield wipers.
cwall99
Addicted Member
Would you really complain that much if she did? I'm just thinkin' that because last night I saw Barb Wire. Pamela Anderson vintage 1996.
JonL
Lunatic Member
I believe that many components may have some amount of microphonics. I'd think that fairly simple and straightforward methods could easily deal with the relatively minute vibrations transmitted from the speakers through the air and building structure to the electronics. Speakers - even at 125 dB SPL - aren't going to be vibrating the gear the way a 200,000W shaker table can. Or even a 100W table that's designed to create and transmit mechanical vibrations rather than sound.
cwall99
Addicted Member
the one modification I know the wife will not go for
True, the WAF on that mod is gonna be pretty low.
similost
Rockin and Rollin....
OK... can someone answer this for me though please..
You put a piece of equipment on a shelf that won't pass the vibrations from the floor, or wall or ceiling to the equipment... I understand that, and yeah, that's a good thing...
However, you have waves traveling through the air.. those waves are going to contact the item setting on the shelf.. it will vibrate that item... the shelf won't absorb that effect...
Soooo..... I forgot the question...
You put a piece of equipment on a shelf that won't pass the vibrations from the floor, or wall or ceiling to the equipment... I understand that, and yeah, that's a good thing...
However, you have waves traveling through the air.. those waves are going to contact the item setting on the shelf.. it will vibrate that item... the shelf won't absorb that effect...
Soooo..... I forgot the question...
bluesky
Lunatic Member
Everything is important in audio reproduction.
Get rid of the weak links and adopt tweeks that really make sense and 'really work'. Big job but when it's done... it's done. Whatever it takes.
Componet platforms: Just get a good 'solid, heavy, non-vibrating' rack or table. What more is there to it, except finding it, one that works, and one you can live with and enjoy. Good luck.
Haven't found a componet rack/table yet. It will happen but I kinda quit looking, the obviously impossible quest. But...I did find the 'perfect' TT table. It's an end table cabinet type, Ethan Allen, a nice one really, heavy, large on top, perfect. But haven't found the rack yet. Had a chance to buy one a couple years ago, a really fine vintage one, I passed on it and 'r e a l l y' regret doing that now cause it was the one I wanted, and it was heavy and stable. It was a tad on the expensive side, who cares, I should of bought that rack, never seen another of that style for sale since. If I ever see it again, I'm buying it.
Get rid of the weak links and adopt tweeks that really make sense and 'really work'. Big job but when it's done... it's done. Whatever it takes.
Componet platforms: Just get a good 'solid, heavy, non-vibrating' rack or table. What more is there to it, except finding it, one that works, and one you can live with and enjoy. Good luck.
Haven't found a componet rack/table yet. It will happen but I kinda quit looking, the obviously impossible quest. But...I did find the 'perfect' TT table. It's an end table cabinet type, Ethan Allen, a nice one really, heavy, large on top, perfect. But haven't found the rack yet. Had a chance to buy one a couple years ago, a really fine vintage one, I passed on it and 'r e a l l y' regret doing that now cause it was the one I wanted, and it was heavy and stable. It was a tad on the expensive side, who cares, I should of bought that rack, never seen another of that style for sale since. If I ever see it again, I'm buying it.
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Jon_Logan
Addicted Member
Everything can be made to resonate.
But saying get this to solve a problem, indicates there is a problem. It'd be nice to see some definitive data showing A: there is a difference and B: that there's an improvement by damping.
JonL
Lunatic Member
I guess that's where a "tuned" rack could come into play. If the spring constant and damping of the rack is tuned to the mass of the gear, the amplitude of vibrations induced in the gear from ambient sound waves could be somewhat reduced. Personally, I think that the magnitude of vibrations transmitted through the air would be pretty small, and the effect of these on slightly microphonic components would be trivial. This stuff is all very easily measurable with standard laboratory equipment (accelerometers). Solution? Stick your sensitive gear in an insulated box to cut down the SPL. Put it in a different room. Experiment with various inexpensive supports and mountings that are pretty widely discussed. I'm having trouble with the concept of a rack that senses and self adjusts to changing conditions, especially if it has no active elements.
bluesky
Lunatic Member
Stereo platform: Big, heavy, and solid. That would work for me. Don't think vibrations would be too much of a problem if the platform is 'level' and weighs a ton. I may be wrong but it seems to me if 'you' can't hardly physically move it, what's sound waves going to do to it??????
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cwall99
Addicted Member
Excellent point!!! Wouldn't it be best, then, if they just built the dampening directly into their gear?
Scuzzer
Fixed Bias
Yeah, especially if you're paying 100k for a pair of amps.
You pay ridiculous amounts of money for high end cars because they've supposedly worked out all the extremely small details regardless of cost. I'd want my uber expensive amps to have the vibration control and power supply issues taken care of internally (or externally) so that I could buy a plug and play solution.
Raynald
Addicted Member
I was skeptical for anything but TT use until recently. When I sold audio we did a fair business in Target racks and the like. I had no trouble hearing the difference those could make versus a cheap particle board rack for a TT. A few years ago I saw there was a whole industry supplying crazy expensive racks and salesmen were talking about the sound of this one vs that one for amps and CDPs, I was a little shocked.
A short while back I inadvertantly proved to my satisfaction that racks can have a big influence on CDPs unders some circumstances. I had my CR-2040 and Yamaha CDX-1120 on a very cheap, $16, IKEA Flarke TV stand. I thought it would be nice to have a fourth level for more gear and spotted what looked like a nice solid 4 shelf rack for $20 used. I picked it up but it turned out that what looked like nice metal posts in the picture were actually plastic. The shelves were OK, but not massive. All in all in was not very heavy. Once I had the big components on it the whole thing was fairly easy to get to swing a bit back and forth with a small push. Oh well, I thought since there was no TT involved and there were no kids around to knock it, everything would be fine as it looked good once in place. I fired up the Kef 107s, flat to 20hz and sitting on either side of the rack on a wood floor, and was horrified. It sounded pretty bad. I tried a few CDs, same result. I thought this had to be my imagination so I asked my wife to give her opinion. Moving the CD from the flimsy rack to the solid one, she agreed it was clear to her the IKEA rack resulted in better sound. I put everything back on the IKEA, managed to sell the other rack and I even got my $20 back.
The lessons I learned from this? Well, a solid base for your CDP is very important. However, that solid base could be $16 brand new at IKEA (well not anymore, its discontinued, but you get the idea). Now my guess is after that first $16, the bang for the buck drops off pretty sharply as you get into the $2000+ racks with "anti-resonant" technology.
I have picked up a couple of Structube "Woodstock" series pieces, the Media Stand and the Media Rack, used for about $40 each. I am anxious to hear how they "sound". I like the look, they can take big vintage components and are very solid with tempered glass shelves made to take 90lb TVs. What's not to like?
http://www.structube.com/en/catalog...ge=flypage.tpl&product_id=916&category_id=250
I think the same racks are sold elsewhere under different names, might be worth keeping an eye out for.
A short while back I inadvertantly proved to my satisfaction that racks can have a big influence on CDPs unders some circumstances. I had my CR-2040 and Yamaha CDX-1120 on a very cheap, $16, IKEA Flarke TV stand. I thought it would be nice to have a fourth level for more gear and spotted what looked like a nice solid 4 shelf rack for $20 used. I picked it up but it turned out that what looked like nice metal posts in the picture were actually plastic. The shelves were OK, but not massive. All in all in was not very heavy. Once I had the big components on it the whole thing was fairly easy to get to swing a bit back and forth with a small push. Oh well, I thought since there was no TT involved and there were no kids around to knock it, everything would be fine as it looked good once in place. I fired up the Kef 107s, flat to 20hz and sitting on either side of the rack on a wood floor, and was horrified. It sounded pretty bad. I tried a few CDs, same result. I thought this had to be my imagination so I asked my wife to give her opinion. Moving the CD from the flimsy rack to the solid one, she agreed it was clear to her the IKEA rack resulted in better sound. I put everything back on the IKEA, managed to sell the other rack and I even got my $20 back.
The lessons I learned from this? Well, a solid base for your CDP is very important. However, that solid base could be $16 brand new at IKEA (well not anymore, its discontinued, but you get the idea). Now my guess is after that first $16, the bang for the buck drops off pretty sharply as you get into the $2000+ racks with "anti-resonant" technology.
I have picked up a couple of Structube "Woodstock" series pieces, the Media Stand and the Media Rack, used for about $40 each. I am anxious to hear how they "sound". I like the look, they can take big vintage components and are very solid with tempered glass shelves made to take 90lb TVs. What's not to like?
http://www.structube.com/en/catalog...ge=flypage.tpl&product_id=916&category_id=250
I think the same racks are sold elsewhere under different names, might be worth keeping an eye out for.
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the_nines
Lunatic Member
Depends what you put on the rack.
If the rack is the most expensive piece of your audio chain chances are you won't hear squat of a difference. You're not going to put a $50 receiver on a $1000 rack.
I have heard a difference and am glad my components are sitting on a rack, especially my turntable, amp & phono stage (tubes in both).
So, in my opinion, it's not "snake oil". A good rack works!
If the rack is the most expensive piece of your audio chain chances are you won't hear squat of a difference. You're not going to put a $50 receiver on a $1000 rack.
I have heard a difference and am glad my components are sitting on a rack, especially my turntable, amp & phono stage (tubes in both).
So, in my opinion, it's not "snake oil". A good rack works!