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could racks effect sound that much?

There is just not enough room for improvement there. It just does not exist. I know Goldmund uses a great internal isolator on their amps and I'm sure it plays a role. But the claims in the other threads device are too over the top.

I understand the thinking from a marketing stand point. I mean hi end componants deserve better than Target or a Flexy rack. But IMO it moves audio into the realm of Buy-Fi. And the companies that can meet the metrix with 3 sales a year.

With that said I know a couple people that sell the total state of the art and I will give them a call about this.

marc mc
 
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Yeah, I guess even the platforms that weigh a ton will vibrate/resonate:
If your using a 500 Watt RMS amp and runnin a pair of A7 speakers with cone baffeled tweets!! :>)

Rock on!
 
This has turned out as I expected a good honest debate with everyone free to voice their opinions freely.

I am open to just about anything and my hearing is near perfect so I would love to do an A-B comparison with and without the racks.
that is the only way I could be convinced.
 
Seriously, a heavy stable level platform make total sense. It's logical. It's very important for quality audio playback. Stability.
I prefer heavy furnature to a rack, but I still wish I would of bought that rack on eBay a couple years ago when I had the chance. I was solid and minty too. (UPS would of probably smashed it up anyway - side note: I've had major damage many times with UPS. I've 'never' had a problem with FedEx. )

Good cables are important too, equally important. Cables and interconnects are a componets in the system. Once you find the right cables, especially speaker cables, you'll know it immediately. Good luck finding them. It's like 'mission impossible'. But once you have them, you'll know it.

And good luck in your search for the the perfect componet platform! I haven't found one yet myself except for my TT. Guess I'm just hoping it will find me. Someday
 
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I'd trust fairly expensive gear to Target racks. Not the red bullseye Target dept store, the rack maker, Target. I can say this because that's the brand of rack I've owned for the last 10 yrs and it is solid and I know it wouldn't collapse under the weight of heavy stuff.

I could see the need to deal with microphonics, if it was an issue, but I don't *think* it's an issue except for some tube gear and (obviously) turntables and (maybe) CDPs. I could see how vibrations of some type could, maybe, introduce jitter. It'd make an interesting data collection experiment.

As for preamps and amps, I haven't proven this to myself but if you tap electrolytics, resistors, transistors, etc. with something (non-conductive for safety) and you don't hear anything, then sound waves aren't going to matter. If you do hear something it'd be interesting to then try to experiment and see if one can quantify the effects.
 
HOW could a rack possibly effect sound other than damping vibrations? And I don't believe in high end cables or power cords for sonic improvement either.
 
the_nines said:
Depends what you put on the rack.

If the rack is the most expensive piece of your audio chain chances are you won't hear squat of a difference. You're not going to put a $50 receiver on a $1000 rack.

I have heard a difference and am glad my components are sitting on a rack, especially my turntable, amp & phono stage (tubes in both).

So, in my opinion, it's not "snake oil". A good rack works!
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I'm not trying to pick a fight (really), but I am curious if your experience hearing a difference was a blind A/B test?

I can understand the effect of vibration on a TT, maybe tubes, but as for the rest, especially SS components, I don't see a scientific basis. And whenever I have inquired at high end audio stores about the $5,000 racks they sell, no one has ever confessed to hearing the difference in blind testing (or, more importantly, even trying to!).

Another poster made a good point about isolating sensitive components somewhere unaffected by SPL, such as another room. But honestly, who frequently listens to music at levels loud enough to negatively affect components by the amount of moving air? Honestly? I mean, it's not as if you're placing the TT right in front of the subwoofer...
 
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I guess it's fun to to question's a members search for the answer, but it was posted in TOL. This thread is so into reverse snobbery that I am dismayed as an AK member. I hope you enjoy yourselves, what a shame on us.
Regards,
Jim
 
IMO proper racks and isolation is critical to an overall best sounding system as possible, everything is subject to vibrations and microphonics, tubes in amps, preamps can ring from vibration as a quick example.
 
ehoove said:
I guess it's fun to to question's a members search for the answer, but it was posted in TOL. This thread is so into reverse snobbery that I am dismayed as an AK member. I hope you enjoy yourselves, what a shame on us.
Regards,
Jim
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This is SOP for far too many here and happens far too often but I think you just need to ignore then and talk around the immature postings,
 
I was reading earlier this month about multiple dimensions, string theory, black holes, etc. Basically, I must admit that I don't understand everything, and that seems to be the case for a lot of scientists, too. There are many things we simply don't know.

So, if somebody thinks their gear sounds better, much better, on fancy stands, that's awesome in my book. The emotion of the music is all in our heads anyway. Does it make sense to me? Nope. Do I care what other people get enjoyment out of? Nope.

My gear was on a decent stand. Then a target shelf. Then an old console. It actually seems to sound best sitting on the old console. (except when my old suspended TT was on a wall shelf, which made a huge difference). Why does it sound best on the console? I don't know. I partially suspect that it sounds best to me because it LOOKS best to me there. Feng Shui, the affect of our surroundings on our psyche, etc.

To each their own.
 
I guess it's fun to to question's a members search for the answer, but it was posted in TOL. This thread is so into reverse snobbery that I am dismayed as an AK member. I hope you enjoy yourselves, what a shame on us.
Regards,
Jim
__________________
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not on my part ,I do not care what the cost is ,
if it cost $2 or $2000,000 I was only interested in the claims and science behind the product .

I am not interested in bashing the product or any other that may make simular claims,
I just wanted to know if it was a valid concept in the opinion of other members how is that snobbery ?
 
ehoove said:
I guess it's fun to to question's a members search for the answer, but it was posted in TOL. This thread is so into reverse snobbery that I am dismayed as an AK member. I hope you enjoy yourselves, what a shame on us.
Regards,
Jim
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There may be some reverse snobbery here, but no more so than the bit of looking down one's nose that occurs when someone posts honest questions about less than pedestrian components. Or when someone posts an opinion about turntables without having ever heard a particular benchmark model. I think some of the high-enders who are into expensive tweaks are a little thin skinned. The cry of "reverse snobbery!" is generally heard when people question rather far-fetched performance claims made for very expensive tweaks especially when the claims are supported by explanations that border on nonsensical. If someone wants to be thin-skinned and discuss questionable tweaks then TOL is their haven. The rules and appropriate aggressive moderation keep things in check so sensibilities will not be offended. Those of us who want to question dubious claims without fear of stepping on sensitive toes need a place to respectfully do that as well. I don't think the bounds of respect should dictate that someone can't call a perpetrator of dubious claims a charlatan or even a snake oil salesman if that is their honest humble opinion.

If someone wants to spend mega bucks on a tweak, fine. That's their business. In their threads posted within TOL they can be treated with kid gloves. But where do we get a chance to be skeptical and critical of people who sell $17,000 racks that have minds of their own, sales of which are based upon claims that black is a color and sounds constrained compared to silver which sounds distorted and grainy, and after the racks do a belly dance for 300 hours suddenly all that was in the imagination of the musician shall be revealed unto you? Sometime the emperor has no clothes and there's got to be place here where that can be said.

Am I off base?
 
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cwall99 said:
Yeah, if I had $80K or more of gear, I'm pretty sure I'd be able to spend a little on a rack, but that rack better be everything I wanted in a rack and then some (like, it better go get me a beer when I want one). .... SNIP ....
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wow, you are easy to please. I'd want that rack to do a lot more than just get me a beer! :yes:
 
ehoove said:
I guess it's fun to to question's a members search for the answer, but it was posted in TOL. This thread is so into reverse snobbery that I am dismayed as an AK member. I hope you enjoy yourselves, what a shame on us.
Regards,
Jim
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It's not the price Jim. If critical Mass sold 20K amp stands that had a caption that said "Built Like a Tank". I wouldn't care! But that is not the claim is it?. IMO this hobby has never been served well by fantastic claims that fly in the face of what we know and hundreds of people have tried.

I doubt anyone hear thinks that racks don't matter. But the claims of break in and componant like changes with amps and preamps is getting reactions from members that know better. Racks are tweaks and there is a reason we call it tweaking.

We are not putting down a member or an audio product. We are talking about the claims and statements of the products designer.

marc mc
 
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the_nines said:
Depends what you put on the rack.

If the rack is the most expensive piece of your audio chain chances are you won't hear squat of a difference. You're not going to put a $50 receiver on a $1000 rack.

I have heard a difference and am glad my components are sitting on a rack, especially my turntable, amp & phono stage (tubes in both).

So, in my opinion, it's not "snake oil". A good rack works!
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+1:yes:
 
turbomustang said:
we all have read about the incredible racks that effect sound so much,

my question is this ,
other than isolating your turntable from vibration or giving a good solid foundation for heavy gear what ( if any ) effect do you think racks have on how good or bad a system sounds ?

My personal opinion is,
I do not see how it could make that much of a difference other than than aesthetics or status .

what do you guys or gals think ?




from what I understand this being audio related is fair game in this section of the forum but if this breaks some rule I am unaware of mods feel free to delete this.
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Consider me skeptical.

However, I will fully agree with the notion that a rack, or more specifically a damping system, can have a noticeable affect on certain components such as turntables, CD players, etc - i.e. those components that rely on some mechanical components to read their source material.

But I don't believe that a damping system can have such profound affects on solid state components, amplifiers, preamps, etc. If they did, then I'd be experiencing sound fluctuations through my system every time I touched a knob, or walked across the floor. I don't. Those systems aren't susceptible to such things, in my experience.

Anyhow, that's my .02,

bs
 
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