Crown Monster Amps vs Audiophile Monster Amps

[MannyE]

I'm just wondering if anyone has ever been able to compare something like a Crown 5002 monster amp to something comparably as powerful from the ultra or just plain old high end of the audiophile spectrum?

It seems to me that one of those Crowns would be able to power any (or at least almost all of them) speaker to it's limit and have tons of headroom left over for whatever drop into 2 ohm territory any individual speaker may have.

Now, keep in mind that at least in my opinion, the entire Crown line from the D-75 on up to whatever they make now is as ugly as a decomposing frog, but aesthetics aside, I see these things for sale at less than the cost of a decent mid-level amp and I wonder...

What are the downsides? Fan noise? Ugly (we already know that)? Do they break lot?

Anyone using large Crown beasts?

 

[whoaru99]

I don't use the MA500x, but I do have a couple MT1200s I run in parallel mode for 1300W rated into 1 ohm. I tried these with a pair of Thiel CS3.6 that run about 2.5 ohms over most of the range. The MTs are the same basic amps as the MA, but with different cases and some different input options.

Then I have several other pro amps, mostly QSC but some other Crowns too, rated 600-700 wpc @ 8 ohms.

For comparison I have the "audiophile" amps Levinson No. 23 and Audio Research 100.2, then more common stuff like Yamaha M-series amps. Personally, I don't feel the better pro amps lack in sound but they are not pretty and most do have fan noise. That said, if the fan noise is a big issue at normal listening then you probably don't really need an amp that big. If you use an amp that big anywhere close to capacity, fan noise is the least of your concerns.

 

[MannyE]

I don't use the MA500x, but I do have a couple MT1200s I run in parallel mode for 1300W rated into 1 ohm. I tried these with a pair of Thiel CS3.6 that run about 2.5 ohms over most of the range. The MTs are the same basic amps as the MA, but with different cases and some different input options.

Then I have several other pro amps, mostly QSC but some other Crowns too, rated 600-700 wpc @ 8 ohms.

For comparison I have the "audiophile" amps Levinson No. 23 and Audio Research 100.2, then more common stuff like Yamaha M-series amps. Personally, I don't feel the better pro amps lack in sound but they are not pretty and most do have fan noise. That said, if the fan noise is a big issue at normal listening then you probably don't really need an amp that big. If you use an amp that big anywhere close to capacity, fan noise is the least of your concerns.

That's good to know!

In my particular case, I don't really mind and in fact, prefer to have as much equipment out of site as possible most of the time. So hiding an amp in a ventilated and soundproofed or just far away from the listening area is no big deal.

 

[Blue Shadow]

That's good to know!

In my particular case, I don't really mind and in fact, prefer to have as much equipment out of site as possible most of the time. So hiding an amp in a ventilated and soundproofed or just far away from the listening area is no big deal.

The original brochure for the D-150 shows the faceplate as an option as this amp was designed to be bolted to the rafters, joists, or lecturn and remain out of sight. Very easy putting it out of sight cause it probably never needed work. Crown amps do not break, in general. Short the leads, it gets hot and shuts down until it cools off then turns back on to repeat the cycle. Up to the user to fix that shorted speaker wire issue, Crown didn't cause it.

 

[pdm4606]

I remember years ago when Cerwin-Vega had an add showing a setup where they took one of their 15"(I believe) speakers and plugged it into a 120V AC outlet. Just to see what happens. And you know what, it got so loud they had to unplug it. But it kept on going until they unplugged it with no damage to the speaker(they said). Sounds like Crown has the same policy. Non-breakable.

 

[toddalin]

I use a Crown PSA-2XH in bridged mono to drive a JBL W15GTi as a sub. The XH stands for eXtended Headroom, and these were custom made for ShowCo and have 2 dB more headroom than the PSA-2. This is accomplished by using the "Japanese" windings on the transformers to supply 90 rather than 75 volts to the rails, and the caps are upgraded accordingly. (This was actually discovered by accident when the ShowCo crew came back from a gig in Japan and forgot to switch the transformers back to the American windings and the amps didn't blow up, but instead put out more power.)

These are far from ugly and you don't hear the fan when the amp is in the cabinet. In the home, the fan usually runs at low speed.

 

[damacman]

Nothing ugly about the Crown MA5000s that's for sure ... And power in spades.

 

[MannyE]

Nothing ugly about the Crown MA5000s that's for sure ... And power in spades.

LOL Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I won't argue those specs. Wow. I can't wait to hear one in my system.

 

[whoaru99]

FWIW, the fans in my MT1200s are fairly noisy. I'd expect MA series to be same/similar.

Unfortunately these are not conducive to modification by simply bolting in a different fan. The fan/fan motor (sometimes called a "fanformer") is a proprietary deal that also contains windings to supply power for 15V power supply, crucial to proper function of the amplifier.

 

[SoCal Sam]

Fan noise disappears with a few clicks of the volume knob.

 

[MannyE]

FWIW, the fans in my MT1200s are fairly noisy. I'd expect MA series to be same/similar.

Unfortunately these are not conducive to modification by simply bolting in a different fan. The fan/fan motor (sometimes called a "fanformer") is a proprietary deal that also contains windings to supply power for 15V power supply, crucial to proper function of the amplifier.

That's not a problem. As I said, I really don't like the look of these things like, at all, so they would be hidden behind a door on a rack with a/c vented into it.

Fan noise disappears with a few clicks of the volume knob.

Indeed it does!

 

[MannyE]

Now this is a Crown that I'd love to have in my system someplace:

That one almost looks residential but I can see I would quickly become annoyed by those meters.

 

[PPstereo]

Happy to have inspired this thread.

As others noted, Crown made ALLOT of amps more powerful than a M91 amp. I picked this one simply because its such a Force from the last of the old school Crown linear PS days.

I personally cant even imagine a speaker capable of being used with this amp in a home environment that would push this amp (crown 5002) anywhere near its power limits. Short of your listening area being the size of a basketball court.

Overall in the home environment I would imagine a crown MA/MT 2400 would be all the amp any hard core listener could ever need. Again generalities around but really there comes a point.

Once you start pushing 300+ watts to any speaker, overall I would assume (short of blowing a driver) you start reaching the limits of what the crossover can even handle. And coil heat in the drivers. So on.... In regards to long term levels like that.

But yeah, once I starting using amps with clip lights its quite the awakening as to when amps start to reach their limits. Ive used my monster 200-300 watt power amps on relatively smaller speakers. Even ones rated for only 100-200 rms total. And when jamming at LOUD levels it makes those 300 watt amps clip briefly.

But again, Im talking REALLY LOUD levels. Levels I dont even enjoy for long periods of time any more, hardly ever.

But it certainly showed me why, years ago, when using all the various receivers, integrated amps and sub 100 watt amps in general, I would blow tweeters. Or hear the system clearly running out of steam at louder levels. There really no comparison to a REAL 200 watt amp.

If you really want to go down the rabbit hole and have some tech skills. Look / get into active amplification setups / speakers. Eliminate the passive crossover as part of the speaker setup. And use a active crossover and drive each driver directly with a power amp all its own. Really opens up the doors with what amps you use for each driver and get a unique sound all its own. Say, Crown MA1200 on woofers, a pass labs clone class A on mids and a single ended tube amp driving your tweeters. Skys the limit. You can play with slopes and crossover points on the drivers too. Just watch out as if you mess something up, its VERY easy to blow a driver given whats going on.

But yeah, theres a reason Crown has been around as long as they have. And were the goto for so many sound reinforcement setups and studios.

Just always remember, never touch the heatsink should you ever have the cover off when its running. Or else youll learn about Crowns grounded bridge tech in a very memorable way.

 

[Bill Ashton]

"Edumacate me"...is the "old" Crown I remember from late-sixties/early-seventies the same Crown as today?

 

[PPstereo]

"Edumacate me"...is the "old" Crown I remember from late-sixties/early-seventies the same Crown as today?

Id have to say no. Crown still makes some great products. But the days of it being a nearly sure thing in terms of quality are nothing like back in the day. Granted much of this is before my time. But I was lucky enough to learn from many others well in the know.

Also servicing and reaching out to Crown is very different.

Who knows how many times the company may have changed hands. Or was / is Harman the only owner????

Whats your favorite memories and or gear from the 60s 70s?

 

[toddalin]

Actually, you want the Crown Reference 1 rather than the 2. These are the Crowns that I first mentioned in teh other thread and are the cream of the crop, regardless of power ratings. Still, 1,160 WPC is not bad.

 

[MannyE]

Id have to say no. Crown still makes some great products. But the days of it being a nearly sure thing in terms of quality are nothing like back in the day. Granted much of this is before my time. But I was lucky enough to learn from many others well in the know.

Also servicing and reaching out to Crown is very different.

Who knows how many times the company may have changed hands. Or was / is Harman the only owner????

Whats your favorite memories and or gear from the 60s 70s?

I can tell you that the Crown D-75 and the Crown D-75A are a metaphor for USA made Crown and the later China made Crowns. Night and day difference with the 75 being more versatile and just more solidly built. No shortcuts. The D75A... lots of shortcuts, less fully featured. Less of a "tank" all around.

 

[MannyE]

Actually, you want the Crown Reference 1 rather than the 2. These are the Crowns that I first mentioned and are the cream of the crop, regardless of power ratings. Still, 1,160 WPC is not bad.

That right there is all the amp I'll ever need.

But no one has said if there is a difference between this and the mega-buck Krells and Mark Levinsons of the world.

 

[whoaru99]

"Edumacate me"...is the "old" Crown I remember from late-sixties/early-seventies the same Crown as today?

Crown still makes a quality product, but if you are looking for giant transformers and soup can capacitors, generally no.

I don't think anyone in pro audio makes their top tier gear still in "big iron" format.

 

[whoaru99]

That right there is all the amp I'll ever need.

But no one has said if there is a difference between this and the mega-buck Krells and Mark Levinsons of the world.

I certainly eluded to that early on. Not MA5000/5002, but from the same bloodline.