Crown Monster Amps vs Audiophile Monster Amps

[tater415]

I'm currently running 6 crown xti 4000 amps in my main system, I run them all in bridge mode, using a Pioneer spec 1 preamp, for speakers I'm using four 18 in Subs and 4 Double 15 inch 3 way Tower speakers. I have never had a problem with my amps breaking down, and as far as fan noise the fans only come on when the music gets really loud so fan noise is not a problem. I recommend the crown xti 4000 you can pick them up cheap

 

[kevzep]

Yes agreed.

But it's also an approach that is sometimes used to keep manufacturing costs lower also. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I'm simply wondering if given the capable power output of the 5002vz it had more to do with keeping size and weight lower.

I could be completely wrong about this. Just curious what kevzep says he thinks about it, or anyone for that matter.

On the very idea of cost and weight, love or hate them lol, look at stuff like carver m1.0t . For it's power output it's quite light weight and cost effective for its time especially. I just rebuilt 2 I ended up with simply to get the included jbl 240ti speakers. Fellow had them in mono driving each speaker.

My poor understanding of that 1.0t amp has me thinking the "power transformer" (I know it's far from a traditional one) internally creates the switching then possibly sends that off to a stepping winding within also to generate the various rail voltages. Again. I could be completely wrong in this idea. Neat amp no less. Loved the ps cap kit I bought to rebuild it.

All the best

The 5002VZ was the flagship at the time, there was no reason for Crown to consider keeping manufacturing costs down for this amp.
The VZ design is about efficiency....keeping the size and weight down. Its already a very heavy amplifier as it stands, about 88lbs...

The design is absolutely nothing like a Carver, completely different topology....Although I have worked on many Carvers, PM1.5's 1200, 2400, 2.0, PT1250.....and they are all pretty interesting amps and perform well for what they are...

 

[kevzep]

I'm currently running 6 crown xti 4000 amps in my main system, I run them all in bridge mode, using a Pioneer spec 1 preamp, for speakers I'm using four 18 in Subs and 4 Double 15 inch 3 way Tower speakers. I have never had a problem with my amps breaking down, and as far as fan noise the fans only come on when the music gets really loud so fan noise is not a problem. I recommend the crown xti 4000 you can pick them up cheap

If you want class D that is....They are good amps, our company had about 12 itech8000's at one point, pretty serious amps for sure, same family of design the XTi's are..

 

[PPstereo]

The 5002VZ was the flagship at the time, there was no reason for Crown to consider keeping manufacturing costs down for this amp.
The VZ design is about efficiency....keeping the size and weight down. Its already a very heavy amplifier as it stands, about 88lbs...

The design is absolutely nothing like a Carver, completely different topology....Although I have worked on many Carvers, PM1.5's 1200, 2400, 2.0, PT1250.....and they are all pretty interesting amps and perform well for what they are...

Hey kevzep, thanks so much for responding and explaining some of this.

BTW I was not in any way trying to equate the amp topology of Carver or NAD with the MA5002. I was simply trying to explain to drumbum how certain amps that use rail switching do so as a cost effective approach to the amp. Short of Carver and NAD being amplifiers I dont see much in common with them and a no holds bar amp like the MA5002. LOL

Thats interesting in what crown is doing to add the voltage gain. Really seems beyond keeping weight down it was more about current draw for the needed amplification. Really amazing design. I couldnt help but immediately be reminded of how crown offered bridging and parallel mono for single channel use. One higher power other lower impedance handling. They really know how to maximize their products usefulness.

I also own a A&B 1100A power amp and a Crest CA9. Both fine examples of rail switchers that retain the quality of a reliable and fine sounding amp. IMO of course.

I see by your system line up you have 2 DSP units for EQing and Xover duties. The MEN220 and Lake unit. Is the lake the Dolby issued unit or Lab?

May I ask what you think about using the older USA / UK EQs and Xovers from the likes of Ashly, Klark and Rane when used for home use? Do you feel they are too noisy and or hold back potential performance vs using a quality DSP processor like what your using? When I was first turned onto Active amplification, DSP was still viewed as a worse approach vs keeping all things analog. Again in terms of home use. They are undeniably handy and feature rich for Pro use. Im just curious if you feel quality built analog pro gear has run its course in this scene now?

Thanks so much for the education and opinions.

 

[whoaru99]

The main point of rail switching or the VZ "articulated power supply" is not so much about power consumption although it is necessarily tied, but about dissipation.

There is little point from an efficiency/dissipation standpoint to have (for example) 150V standing rails to swing a signal that needs only 50V to swing it. That 100V difference in example is just waste in unnecessary voltage drop a d dissipation through the output stages.

 

[PPstereo]

The main point of rail switching or the VZ "articulated power supply" is not so much about power consumption although it is necessarily tied, but about dissipation.

There is little point from an efficiency/dissipation standpoint to have (for example) 150V standing rails to swing a signal that needs only 50V to swing it. That 100V difference in example is just waste in unnecessary voltage drop a d dissipation through the output stages.

Thanks for the further clarification.

Makes total sense. And by dissipation I would assume heat is part of the savings. Also wear and tear in terms of stress placed on the various internals. All aspects that mean allot when up time and reliability are paramount in pro needs.

I can appreciate your expansion. I imagine power savings probably are not night and day given both rails are always active and being used by the amp at all times. It simply is there to allow the amplifier to open up wide when needed in basic terms.

Thanks again for straightening me out more.

 

[kevzep]

Hey kevzep, thanks so much for responding and explaining some of this.

BTW I was not in any way trying to equate the amp topology of Carver or NAD with the MA5002. I was simply trying to explain to drumbum how certain amps that use rail switching do so as a cost effective approach to the amp. Short of Carver and NAD being amplifiers I dont see much in common with them and a no holds bar amp like the MA5002. LOL

Thats interesting in what crown is doing to add the voltage gain. Really seems beyond keeping weight down it was more about current draw for the needed amplification. Really amazing design. I couldnt help but immediately be reminded of how crown offered bridging and parallel mono for single channel use. One higher power other lower impedance handling. They really know how to maximize their products usefulness.

I also own a A&B 1100A power amp and a Crest CA9. Both fine examples of rail switchers that retain the quality of a reliable and fine sounding amp. IMO of course.

I see by your system line up you have 2 DSP units for EQing and Xover duties. The MEN220 and Lake unit. Is the lake the Dolby issued unit or Lab?

May I ask what you think about using the older USA / UK EQs and Xovers from the likes of Ashly, Klark and Rane when used for home use? Do you feel they are too noisy and or hold back potential performance vs using a quality DSP processor like what your using? When I was first turned onto Active amplification, DSP was still viewed as a worse approach vs keeping all things analog. Again in terms of home use. They are undeniably handy and feature rich for Pro use. Im just curious if you feel quality built analog pro gear has run its course in this scene now?

Thanks so much for the education and opinions.

I'll come back to you on some of this when I have a bit more time on my hands, the Lake Contour was made by Lake before they were bought out by Dolby.
Its a top unit, I really like it, and if course we use in our PA systems LP4D12 Dolby lakes, and LM44's.

Heat is a big thing with the VZ in mind, even so, these amps can run very hot, they start thermal limiting when the heatsinks reach 100˚C.
The thermal cycling can cause heat fractures in the solder joints of the output transistors, you'll often find there are several which are actually no longer connected. When open for servicing, its SOP to always reflow those connections.

I'll tell you about the processors/Xovers/EQ's I have tried/used in my system as I say when I have a bit more time...

 

[PPstereo]

I'll come back to you on some of this when I have a bit more time on my hands, the Lake Contour was made by Lake before they were bought out by Dolby.
Its a top unit, I really like it, and if course we use in our PA systems LP4D12 Dolby lakes, and LM44's.

Heat is a big thing with the VZ in mind, even so, these amps can run very hot, they start thermal limiting when the heatsinks reach 100˚C.
The thermal cycling can cause heat fractures in the solder joints of the output transistors, you'll often find there are several which are actually no longer connected. When open for servicing, its SOP to always reflow those connections.

I'll tell you about the processors/Xovers/EQ's I have tried/used in my system as I say when I have a bit more time...

Thanks again for responding with more info.

Look forward to the additional thoughts.

I was lucky to stumble onto a rather shotty built home made sub enclosure which held a B&C 21SW152-4 driver inside. Real shock given how amateur the box was. Cant wait to have a proper box built for it. Should make an amazing home sub.

All the best

 

[MannyE]

I know this thread has been sitting for some time, but I'm brining it back to life! After spending time listening to MANY different amps, I'm taking the plunge. Crown amps are going to supply power to the new HT, and the new 2-channel setup. They are most likely going to be used amps refurbished by a professional audio shop. Unless I find very good lightly used versions locally.

 

[Lavane]

My son gave me three CDi series Crown amps. They are meant for rack mount with screw terminals for speakers and Phoenix connectors for input. Being "Pro Audio" BASH amps he wasn't interested in them. I converted one from the Phoenix connectors to RCA jacks. The amps sounds good. He was over yesterday and wound up taking it home. Now I need to convert another one.
These amps using Class D amps driving a discrete output stage sound pretty good. The switching power supply is quiet as well.