Crown power amp for studio and hifi use

[BMWCCA]

I've used Crowns nearly exclusively in my home systems for over forty years. Pick the power level you need and the rack size you want because they all cost about the same, regardless! :yes:

I own and use D150 (bought it new), D150A-II, DC300A-II, D75A, PS-200, PS-400. You can't really go wrong. :thmbsp:

 

[Rick Vestal]

You have to look at what exactly you are paying for with pro audio equipment. They are built to take abuse, period. I've owned Crown and QSC, and currently in the studio am running Mackie. I found Crown and Yamaha to be middle of the road noise wise. There really is a difference between touring amps and studio amps. Crown I believe wins hands down when it comes to being able to endure abuse but you have to remember that of your $300, after the "road worthiness" is subtracted, what's left is the electronics. That said, my Mackie very well may be the quietest studio amplifier I have ever owned. I'm micing gear within feet of the rack and ambient noise isn't showing in the waveform at all. My QSC was the opposite and I'm glad it died.

I wanted to add that spec-wise, yeah, the pro audio amps look good. But take that with a grain of salt. The same holds true with home audio as well. There's low end gear that appears to be on par with high end gear that appear similar looking at specifications alone.

 

[whoaru99]

My QSC was the opposite and I'm glad it died.

I think the QSCs I have sound better, generally speaking, than the Crowns I have but yeah, stock form the fans made some noise. Not any more than the Crowns though, IMO. $10 (each) fixed the fan noise in the QSC amps I use for my HT/main setup, although I doubt my living room has as low of a noise floor as a true studio.

 

[Rick Vestal]

I think the QSCs I have sound better, generally speaking, than the Crowns I have but yeah, stock form the fans made some noise. Not any more than the Crowns though, IMO. $10 (each) fixed the fan noise in the QSC amps I use for my HT/main setup, although I doubt my living room has as low of a noise floor as a true studio.

The thing is tho... When I acquired my first big screen TV, projection style, I noticed the fact that I could see every pixel. For a few weeks I only saw Red Green Blue dots. After a while tho, I was able to look past that and I saw a perfect picture.

Ambient noise is in your mind. If you're looking for it, it'll be the one thing you hear. Once you get past that, it's in the background. Kinda like a dishwasher running while you're listening to music. Your mind just doesn't focus on it...

 

[BMWCCA]

You have to look at what exactly you are paying for with pro audio equipment. They are built to take abuse, period. I've owned Crown and QSC, and currently in the studio am running Mackie. I found Crown and Yamaha to be middle of the road noise wise. There really is a difference between touring amps and studio amps. Crown I believe wins hands down when it comes to being able to endure abuse but you have to remember that of your $300, after the "road worthiness" is subtracted, what's left is the electronics.

I suppose it might be important here to include exactly what model of Crown amps you're including in your opinion here. Back when I bought my first Crown (D150) they were sold alongside McIntosh in hi-fi stores as top-of-the-line audiophile amps for home use—as well as proving themselves on the road. I still have the graphs of my Crown at the old Mac Clinics where noise and distortion were measured below any contemporary Mac units with power measurements going well beyond Crown's claims. The Mac engineers just shook their heads in tacit approval as they proceeded to give me new tubes in my Mac even before starting that test cycle. They'd put new tubes in all Macs before any test, every year, regardless of age, and would rebuild any Mac that failed to meet specs—on the spot. The Crowns just kept the same stable performance parameters year after year.

Two of my amps came out of movie theaters, one from a college drama theater, and two from recording studios. The others are from home environments; all built-in, high-demand environments. That's been the role of the D-series and PS-series amps for over fifty years and it continues today.

 

[whoaru99]

The thing is tho... When I acquired my first big screen TV, projection style, I noticed the fact that I could see every pixel. For a few weeks I only saw Red Green Blue dots. After a while tho, I was able to look past that and I saw a perfect picture.

Ambient noise is in your mind. If you're looking for it, it'll be the one thing you hear. Once you get past that, it's in the background. Kinda like a dishwasher running while you're listening to music. Your mind just doesn't focus on it...

I understand what you're saying about ambient noise, I rarely "hear" the trains that go by in the day because I'm occupied with something else, but I'm unclear about the point relative to the amps.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Older Crown was equally accepted by audiophiles and marketed to them until something like 1982. D 150 and DC 300a amps were very accepted by the high end home users, broadcast, touring sound, and by even studios. And sounded very excellent even by any standards then. And more reliable than most. Crowns met or exceeded spec under tougher conditions than any home amp ever was expected to. They had to be Missionary Tough, their founder saw to that. They will perform under conditions which will kill Yamahas, Peaveys, and many others. And give up little sonically. Clarence Moore saw to that.

 

[Rick Vestal]

They kept stable parameters, at a price tho... Again, built to last. I'm not bashing Crown by any means... They are a bulletproof amplifier with a purpose. There's a reason you see big name acts with racks full of Crowns.. They won't die. BUT, I do believe the money can be better spent elsewhere for better performance...

 

[Rick Vestal]

I understand what you're saying about ambient noise, I rarely "hear" the trains that go by in the day because I'm occupied with something else, but I'm unclear about the point relative to the amps.

I was referring to the QSC's insane fan noise, which after a while I mentally ignored...

 

[ToneAlive]

You guys are awesome..so much great info in so little time. I have a chance to buy a Crown PS400 for $190 or a Crown D-150A for $160. Should I pull the trigger?! Which one! :scratch2:

 

[BMWCCA]

You guys are awesome..so much great info in so little time. I have a chance to buy a Crown PS400 for $190 or a Crown D-150A for $160. Should I pull the trigger?! Which one! :scratch2:

I would suggest the PS-400. I much prefer the D150A-II to the earlier version D150/A but even then thirty-bucks for double the power may come in handy some day. They're equally clean and the PS-series have some nice upgrades (turn-on delay for one). :thmbsp:

 

[ToneAlive]

BMWCCA: cool, so they seem like good prices for both of them? From The little that I have found out about their value, they seem like good prices to me.

 

[JoeESP9]

This may be above your budget but B&H Photo has the new Crown XLS1000 for $299.

215W/Channel @ 8 Ohms Stereo
350W/Channel @ 4 Ohms Stereo
550W/Channel @ 2 Ohms Stereo
700W @ 8 Ohms Bridged
1100W @ 4 Ohms Bridged

 

[ToneAlive]

This may be above your budget but B&H Photo has the new Crown XLS1000 for $299.

Thanks for the suggestion. I am pretty set on a PS-400, PS-200, or a D150 or D300. The XLS series seems to have a noisy fan..I don't feel like modding it. And I like how the ones that I just mentioned run at class A for the first few watts. From what I gather, the D and PS vintage series should sound better than the XLS series and they were totl for crown back then, and made specifically for hifi or live sound... what do you think?

 

[JoeESP9]

Just about every amplifier made runs in Class A up to a certain point. The ones that run hotter are biased to run more Class A watts. IMO how far an amp is biased to run Class A before sliding into Class B is not really important. Remember, "Vintage" doesn't necessarily mean better.

I thought the fans in the two XLS402's I bought were a little loud. I should point out I couldn't hear them at 10 feet with music playing at any volume. Direct plug in replacements that are very quit were $10 each. The slightly lower airflow isn't a problem because I'm not using them for commercial/PA use. I've been running them constantly for a year now and they've never even gotten warm.

I'm sort of unimpressed with the DC-300 I have. Lately I've been using it's Walnut case as a rack mount for my Behringer CX2310 and DSP1124P. The case is a 4U case and using both Behringers leaves an empty 2U space. I've been thinking of adding a 2U power amp for the center channel speaker I never bought. The case is now sitting between my front speakers on a spiked piece of black painted MDF. My amps are next to or behind their respective speakers.

 

[BMWCCA]

This may be above your budget but B&H Photo has the new Crown XLS1000 for $299.

Let's see; Vintage USA-made Crown for $190 or Chinese stuff for $300? :scratch2:

I'm sort of unimpressed with the DC-300 I have.

The DC300 was a great amp when it was introduced nearly a half-century ago. The DC300A was better. The DC300A-II better yet, and the PS-400 was the pinnacle of development for that type amp.

 

[JoeESP9]

I've had the DC-300 since the late 70's. Yes, it has been properly cared for. That care includes new caps and proper adjustment of bias and DC offset.

Vintage doesn't mean better. It does however, mean old with all the possible problems that implies. A lot of gear I declined to buy when it was new has achieved "cult" status. I didn't think much of it when it was new and I still don't think too highly of it.

I don't understand why the country a product is manufactured in has any relevance? A product is engineered well and built properly or it isn't.

 

[BMWCCA]

I don't understand why the country a product is manufactured in has any relevance? A product is engineered well and built properly or it isn't.

You sound like a fast-food ad: Parts is parts.

Heck if some can swear that spending $5000 on speaker cables makes an audible difference worth the expense, then I'm pretty sure Chinese caps might sound "different", too. I'm not saying your DC300 is the best amp made or that my PS400 is the best $100 amp out there, either. The D-series amps have the reputation they do for a good reason—lots of folk have used them to their satisfaction for many, many years. I bought my first Crown for the quality of the sound back in the early '70s and it's still delivering today. I bought my latest Crowns last year for the same reason. Nearly every modern electronic failure I've experienced in the last two years is linked to unreliable failed caps in Chinese-made products less than two-years old. That includes clock radios to HD-TVs to H-K audio equipment.

If the OP buys a $190 PS400 and it just doesn't meet his expectations, he'll always be able to re-market it at most likely a small profit or, worst case, a very small loss. It's certainly worth a try. If twice that money is spent on a new Chinese-made Crown amp and it doesn't work out, expect to lose $$ to shift that one elsewhere. You can rationalize buying a vintage (I prefer to use the same term Crown uses: "Legacy") Crown amp in many ways, some economic and others based on sound quality. I'm arguing for the PS400 on both fronts. :thmbsp:

 

[whoaru99]

You sound like a fast-food ad: Parts is parts.

...

Nearly every modern electronic failure I've experienced in the last two years is linked to unreliable failed caps in Chinese-made products less than two-years old. That includes clock radios to HD-TVs to H-K audio equipment.

If Crown, et al, are failing to confirm/enforce their quality standards and allowing substandard parts to be used then it Crown, et al, where the blame should lie as they are ultimately responsible for the product.

 

[toddalin]

If Crown, et al, are failing to confirm/enforce their quality standards and allowing substandard parts to be used then it Crown, et al, where the blame should lie as they are ultimately responsible for the product.

Current Crown equipment meets the current quality standards of the industry for Public Address equipment. Problem is that the current specs of the industry suck. In the old days, Crown used to exceed the quality standards and specs of the industry.

On the first page of this thread I provided a reference to the Vintage and current Crown equipment specs. The vintage high end Crown stuff has vastly superior specs to the new stuff in every way except power level and ability to play to very low impedience loads.

For example, the current stuff has an S/N of 100 dB at rated power (103 dB on the "good stuff") whereas in the old days, this was >112 dB at rated power for a PS-400 and >115 dB at rated power for a PSA-2. That's 13 times quieter for a PS-400 and 32 times quieter for a PSA-2. (Hiss bugs the he11 out of me and there is none to be heard in a PSA-2.)

Some of the old specs aren't even provided anymore (e.g., slew rate) leading me to believe that they may not be so good anymore either.