Current cartridges matching the old-school Shure sound?

johnjhazel said:
I have read the review more than once and I read comparisons of the sound between the A/T VM540ML and the Shure M97xE.
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What, I even lifted the direct quote from the review which compares V15V-MR to VM540ML plus most of the graphs do the same. I have both carts plus a M97xE snd a V15V/JICO SAS-B. Only the M97 sounds divergent to the others. But there’s no doubt the VM540ML could replace a V15V-MR without the user ever suspecting a switch.
 
I’m not crusading for the VM540ML, just reporting my experience with the cart along with a review which mirrors my experience that the VM540ML could satisfy someone looking for a cart which sounds like the Shure V15V-MR. It satisfies me. At any rate, my advise is don’t take my word or that from anyone else, just audition the cart and hear for yourself. And, BTW, my experience is from TT output to Marantz, Parasound, and Schitt MM Phono stages with equal settings applied to both carts.
 
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SterlingOne said:
What, I even lifted the direct quote from the review which compares V15V-MR to VM540ML plus most of the graphs do the same. I have both carts plus a M97xE snd a V15V/JICO SAS-B. Only the M97 sounds divergent to the others. But there’s no doubt the VM540ML could replace a V15V-MR without the user ever suspecting a switch.
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'But there’s no doubt the VM540ML could replace a V15V-MR without the user ever suspecting a switch'. Fair enough. I would like to read reviews(a bit less technical) about the Audio Technica moving coil cartridges. I would like the ART 1000 from what I have read. I prefer direct scanning cartridges. There are not that many examples in production. The ART 1000 as mentioned, the Londons(Decca) ,and the Tzar DST which is a Russian cartridge that is too crude for me. It also costs about twice that of the ART 1000 and the TOTL London Reference.
 
johnjhazel said:
'But there’s no doubt the VM540ML could replace a V15V-MR without the user ever suspecting a switch'. Fair enough. I would like to read reviews(a bit less technical) about the Audio Technica moving coil cartridges. I would like the ART 1000 from what I have read. I prefer direct scanning cartridges. There are not that many examples in production. The ART 1000 as mentioned, the Londons(Decca) ,and the Tzar DST which is a Russian cartridge that is too crude for me. It also costs about twice that of the ART 1000 and the TOTL London Reference.
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I have curiosity for 3 MC Audio Technica Carts but not the budget to experiment, although I may be purchasing a 33PTGII in the coming days.
 
I have had a number of the Sumiko HOMC Blue Points. The first one was a steal at $89. I currently have and use an Ortofon Quintet Blue. Unfortunately it seems, at least for me, that once you get hooked on LOMC's, you want to go from a $500 LOMC to something on the order of an Ortofon Cadenza. I have a number of MM and MI cartridges. They are fun because of the wide selection of aftermarket styli.
 
johnjhazel said:
I have had a number of the Sumiko HOMC Blue Points. The first one was a steal at $89. I currently have and use an Ortofon Quintet Blue. Unfortunately it seems, at least for me, that once you get hooked on LOMC's, you want to go from a $500 LOMC to something on the order of an Ortofon Cadenza. I have a number of MM and MI cartridges. They are fun because of the wide selection of aftermarket styli.
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What I enjoy most from vinyl is the decongested sound; yet, the tone is still very CD like from my MM carts. Thus, I am considering the AT-33PTGII to get a sweeter tone. It is at the limit of my budget.
 
Wolfie62 said:
Just so no one is confused, I have condensed and HIGHLIGHTED the above-referenced article into all of the mentions of the Shure cartridges, for proper context.

I will go from beginning of the article to the end, in that order.

The mentions of the Shure M97xE;
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And, of even more interest, is the supposed comparison of the AT VM540ML that was misrepresented as a sound comparison....



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Check out this (inferior) FR plot of the 540. NOT up to the V15VMR's performance!


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You left out the bulk of graphs, as well as the quote I sited. Now, why would you do that? I'll tell you why, you want to distort the review to have a very divergent meaning so as to support your misplaced and uninformed notions on the matter.
 
Wolfie62 said:
That would be great, John! If they have a nude elliptical, S700E, S700XR, or in that lineage, it would be truly game-changing!
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I sent him an email. If I hear back on that subject, I will let you know what he said. Your post reminded me to ask him if he tried the D5100e at 2.0-2.5 grams. His webpage shows 2.50-4.50 grams VTF. Yikes ! Thank you for jogging my memory.
 
SterlingOne said:
You left out the bulk of graphs, as well as the quote I sited. Now, why would you do that? I'll tell you why, you want to distort the review to have a very divergent meaning so as to support your misplaced and uninformed notions on the matter.
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I didn't distort anything. I posted, in full, what the review said. In every part that measured, and mentioned a Shure cartridge, I posted without leaving anything out.

The review talks about the 540ML stylus, and its performance on the AT 440MLa, and in relation to the similar MR of the legacy Shure V15VMR. It never compares the sound of the 540 to the V15VMR. But it does mention that the 540 doesn't live up to the V15VMR.

You have a habit of not reading what is in reviews and not reading what others have posted. So here is that post, again, to directly answer your insinuation, er...question.
V15VMR 1.jpg

So there is your snippet, big as life!!! (I already posted this.) Did you bother to read what I circled in red, with the exclamation point? It doesn't measure up to the V15VMR.

Did you bother to quote the part above, about the 540 not doing as well as the V15VMR in other tests? No, you didn't mention that part.

And here is the FR chart that your article refers to above, circled in red, that DOES NOT MATCH THE V15VMR:
540ML RESPONSE.jpg

All of the other graphs and charts only show the 540 in comparison to the 440MLa, or just to the 540's own characteristics. No comparison to the V15VMR.
.
 
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My cartridge preference is leaning towards lomc, of which I own several, by Dynavector, Kiseki, and others. MM mostly not so interesting, one exception is v15III. Wonderful with original stylus. With SASr stylus also very good.
 
Wolfie62 said:
I didn't distort anything. I posted, in full, what the review said. In every part that measured, and mentioned a Shure cartridge, I posted without leaving anything out.

The review talks about the 540ML stylus, and its performance on the AT 440MLa, and in relation to the similar MR of the legacy Shure V15VMR. It never compares the sound of the 540 to the V15VMR. But it does mention that the 540 doesn't live up to the V15VMR.

You have a habit of not reading what is in reviews and not reading what others have posted. So here is that post, again, to directly answer your insinuation, er...question.
View attachment 2319248

So there is your snippet, big as life!!! (I already posted this.) Did you bother to read what I circled in red, with the exclamation point? It doesn't measure up to the V15VMR.

Did you bother to quote the part above, about the 540 not doing as well as the V15VMR in other tests? No, you didn't mention that part.

And here is the FR chart that your article refers to above, circled in red, that DOES NOT MATCH THE V15VMR:
View attachment 2319249

All of the other graphs and charts only show the 540 in comparison to the 440MLa, or just to the 540's own characteristics. No comparison to the V15VMR.
.
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You did indeed distort the review which has about 6 pages of graphs which allude to VM540ML performance being similar to the Shure V15V-MR. The folks here do not need your interpretation. They can read the whole thing for themselves. Oh, BTW you know nothing about my habits.
 
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Really?

You mean I have to go and show all the graphs that only refer to the harmonic distortions of the 540, with no mention at all of any Shure cartridges? And that, just to show that the graphs make no comparisons to the V15VMR?? And that the graphs are merely a study of the ML stylus tip?

Before I do that, let me repeat what the authors of your study said, flat out:

540 One Statement.jpg

This one, single statement by the authors of your review, KILLS your entire hypothesis.

The frequency response prevents the 540 from sounding like, or even matching the best Shure cartridge of the 1980's......That would be the very same V15VMR. (The V15VxMR didn't come out until 1997.)
 
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I'm sorry my thread caused a bit of an argument. Still I got useful infos out of it... ;-)
In the attempt of changing focus slightly, does any of you have experience in comparing old TOTL Shure carts like V15s and M97HE with Grado Signatures (possibly with the modern 8MZ stylus) or with the recent Prestige 3s?
Although a would not expect a flat frequency response here, but who knows....?
 
My advice is, if you want the Shure sound, buy a Shure cartridge. They’re not always cheap, but they’re plentiful.

Then buy a new offering and compare for yourself.

However, there seems to be a wide gap between those buying new cartridges, and those buying vintage. So it tends to blur the line for those making comparisons across brands, old vs new.
 
I have a V-15IV w/Jico SAS. It doe nothing wrong. It just doesn't seem to have the "sparkle" my Sumiko Blackbird LOMC has. The Sumiko may not be as accurate but my old ears like that added sparkle. When the Blackbird goes for a re-tip the Shure will be back in use.
 
JoeESP9 said:
I have a V-15IV w/Jico SAS. It doe nothing wrong. It just doesn't seem to have the "sparkle" my Sumiko Blackbird LOMC has. The Sumiko may not be as accurate but my old ears like that added sparkle. When the Blackbird goes for a re-tip the Shure will be back in use.
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Well…. Way more expensive cartridge… I bet it has at least more sparkle!
 
Is that Sumiko Blackbird a “bright” cartridge?

I don’t have a Jico SAS for my V15 IV, just an original VN45HE. I rarely play it. When I use my V15 IV, I use a Jico bonded elliptical. It has plenty of “sparkle” in my system, just not the detail of the nude HE stylus. I’m one of “those” guys who prefer the sound of the IV over the V. Just a preference, no basis in statistics/specs.

I’m listening to my old V15-RS cartridge at the moment, with a Swiss nude elliptical. It sounds nice, but it suffers from top end droop, owing to the revised coils/poles Shure adopted in 1997. Something for everyone in Shure’s MM cartridge world.
 
It definitely there is something about old Shure cartridge sound. After being very familiar with lines like M95, V15 II, III, IV, V and VxMR, and many contemporary cartridges (Ort. Blue, AT95SH and 540ML, Grado Opus3, Nagaoka 110) I stumbled onto V15 I (to complete V15 collection). I got EVG nude for it, and the life and energy coming out of this cartridge is something else. It is not great cartridge in audiophile sense, but it makes all music engaging and fun to listen to, more than the others, and if it is close in sound to M55 and M44 lines, I can now understand the fascination by some of these oldies but goodies.
 
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