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Darlington Labs MP-7 vs Graham Slee Accession for MM

patient_ot said:
U.S. loaner items ship from the U.S. via UPS Ground. Not that expensive. Sometimes there is a waiting list for loaners, depends on the time and when the request is made.
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You wouldn’t think so, but based on dimensions, insurance, etc it adds up. My quote from the loaner program in July 2021 was almost $50 just to ship the unit to me, not including the shipping back.
 
t4t3r said:
You wouldn’t think so, but based on dimensions, insurance, etc it adds up. My quote from the loaner program in July 2021 was almost $50 just to ship the unit to me, not including the shipping back.
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Around $25-30 each way for me when I did it a few years ago. How far away you are from the location where units are shipped is a factor.
 
patient_ot said:
If you're talking about one review I know of, that set of measurements was garbage. They couldn't even measure the gain properly and were off by 3dB which is miles in the world of audio measurements. Main reason for this was failure to set the audio analyzer up correctly and lift the input resistor. That's straight from G.S. which uses AP test gear to get their factory specs.

Anyway, just sharing info, I'm not going to get into a detailed debate over it. If anyone has questions about the measurements of any piece of gear from any brand, they should start by contacting the manufacturer of said gear and ask how factory specs were measured.

In general, one thing to keep in mind is that vinyl is far from a perfect format and there is much more noise (often not audible to everyone) from both the record and the cartridge than most folks realize.
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We sold an MP-7 to someone in the Netherlands that was going to compare it to his GS unit at about twice the price, a couple of months ago.
To our knowledge we have not heard back about the comparison.
By memory, this has happened more than once before. GS has a web presence and quite a large fan base, and we don't want to speculate if this has any bearing on users wishing to disclose their results.
 
Genov said:
Well, Mr. Darlington, at half the price of the Slee, this po boy has put his faith in you. I placed an order for an MP-7 this morning. Looking forward to getting it in the line up ;)
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Price comparisons are not a measure of quality in this case. The cost of living in UK is high which will be reflected in the cost at checkout. Whereas the DL is a fairly new product and priced low (for what it is) to gain market share. This is just my view. I haven't heard the GSA but do own an MP-7 and doubt you will be disappointed. At this price the near universal praise it garners is not too surprising.
 
ripblade said:
Price comparisons are not a measure of quality in this case. The cost of living in UK is high which will be reflected in the cost at checkout. Whereas the DL is a fairly new product and priced low (for what it is) to gain market share. This is just my view. I haven't heard the GSA but do own an MP-7 and doubt you will be disappointed. At this price the near universal praise it garners is not too surprising.
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I have interest in the special GS preamps because of the 78 curves they offer but the MP-7 can be ordered with two extra pre riaa curves also. I know I am probably a small minority though.
 
ripblade said:
Price comparisons are not a measure of quality in this case. The cost of living in UK is high which will be reflected in the cost at checkout. Whereas the DL is a fairly new product and priced low (for what it is) to gain market share. This is just my view. I haven't heard the GSA but do own an MP-7 and doubt you
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Good point! Makes me feel even better about my decision.
 
Morgan D said:
I have interest in the special GS preamps because of the 78 curves they offer but the MP-7 can be ordered with two extra pre riaa curves also. I know I am probably a small minority though.
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I don't have the facility to play 78s (though I do have a couple of albums) but I agree that the ability to alter the curves is useful, even for various others such as Decca, Columbia, etc. I think strict adherence to RIAA is too dogmatic but that is where we are. Phono stages with such options are available but they're almost all universally chip based, which is not what I want.
 
ripblade said:
I don't have the facility to play 78s (though I do have a couple of albums) but I agree that the ability to alter the curves is useful, even for various others such as Decca, Columbia, etc. I think strict adherence to RIAA is too dogmatic but that is where we are. Phono stages with such options are available but they're almost all universally chip based, which is not what I want.
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The 78 unit we've developed has two semi-RIAA shelves and then an almost-RIAA position with a tiny bit of treble lift (due to capacitor value availability). The middle position with a few dB of shelved treble boost is very interesting even for listening on RIAA records. One competitor has an intentionally-shelved-up bass and treble range which are undefeatable, as does one of the famous British competitors who advertises "flat" but measures "intentionally scooped/tilted". Our units are so clean that the treble lift doesn't sound at all veiled or harsh.

We will be honest and say that we almost no interest from clients in adjustable pre-RIAA LP curves, however.

Along the same lines, we are also considering a variant of an MP-7 that would be dedicated to tape playback (Open-Reel and possibly cassette) with some adjustability internally. A tape unit would be a highly-niche item in our view, but our design facilities and business model would allow us to do this and we believe our pricing and quality could be a significant step up in value compared to the traditional 'audiophile' or 'studio mastering grade' reel to reel playback electronics. Proper installation of remote electronics into many consumer reel to reel decks, and especially cassette decks, may require custom work and/or remote-powered JFET buffers to prevent hum intrusion on the "raw tape head output signal" and that is not something we have interest in doing at this time. The number of people running external discrete Dolby NR boxes with cassette is probably so miniscule as to sell a handful of units per year, if that, but this type of thing really continues to excite our design team...unique solutions.

Sales keep increasing on the basic phono pre's and we are reluctant to outsource any design aspect at this time so this is more of a broad "stay tuned over the medium to longer-term."
 
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“Along the same lines, we are alsoconsidering a variant of an MP-7 that wouldbe dedicated to tape playback (Open-Reeland possibly cassette) with someadjustability internally.”

Interesting! I have an Otari R2R. Would it be possible to have my current MP-7 modified to include such, or would that have to be independent?
 
ripblade said:
I don't have the facility to play 78s (though I do have a couple of albums) but I agree that the ability to alter the curves is useful, even for various others such as Decca, Columbia, etc. I think strict adherence to RIAA is too dogmatic but that is where we are. Phono stages with such options are available but they're almost all universally chip based, which is not what I want.
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Are you referring to that cheap Ultra preamp and the like or the GS. Is the GS, chip ?
 
Morgan D said:
Genov ,what phono pre are you using with that wonderful Decware product.?
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I’ve been using either the first edition of the Soundsmith MMP3 when matched up with the Decware, or a Sansui AU222 phono section(does pretty well). I was just looking for something different.

As of late, the Soundsmith pre was sounding pretty lethargic. Turns out, I had fairly recently changed some of my component locations, and put the external power supply for my turntable directly on top of the phono pre. I guess common sense should have told me that is a no no, but I did not think about it til later.

Still kind of wanted a change though, so now I get to see how the MP7 compares to the Soundsmith.
 
I assume that Sansui sounds really good. I think what you have will be tough to beat. What clearly made the biggest difference on my system was the MM-6 and the SAE LT cartridge. I also have an obscure PJL electronics tube phono pre that I am really happy with too. I have noticed that people get very tribal here on AK. It's nice that the PJL products are unknown so people can't come on here and bash them. It really shouldn't bother me but it does.
 
krichard2496 said:
The 78 unit we've developed has two semi-RIAA shelves and then an almost-RIAA position with a tiny bit of treble lift (due to capacitor value availability). The middle position with a few dB of shelved treble boost is very interesting even for listening on RIAA records. One competitor has an intentionally-shelved-up bass and treble range which are undefeatable, as does one of the famous British competitors who advertises "flat" but measures "intentionally scooped/tilted". Our units are so clean that the treble lift doesn't sound at all veiled or harsh.

We will be honest and say that we almost no interest from clients in adjustable pre-RIAA LP curves, however.
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All I want is to be able to turn a dial to warm up a thin recording or brighten up a dull one. Effectively, a tone control that utilizes the existing equalizer rather than adding another, in keeping with the KISS principle. I believe this can offer more variability than loading options alone, particularly with MM. No one seems to be doing this with discrete topologies.
 
ripblade said:
All I want is to be able to turn a dial to warm up a thin recording or brighten up a dull one. Effectively, a tone control that utilizes the existing equalizer rather than adding another, in keeping with the KISS principle. I believe this can offer more variability than loading options alone, particularly with MM. No one seems to be doing this with discrete topologies.
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My PJL has a tone control. They are on the bay. It is called a Retro.
 
Morgan D said:
I assume that Sansui sounds really good. I think what you have will be tough to beat. What clearly made the biggest difference on my system was the MM-6 and the SAE LT cartridge. I also have an obscure PJL electronics tube phono pre that I am really happy with too. I have noticed that people get very tribal here on AK. It's nice that the PJL products are unknown so people can't come on here and bash them. It really shouldn't bother me but it does.
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The PJL products look awesome. I looked extensively through their website.

What exactly are you using? How do they compare to Darlington Lab pre’s?
 
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