Deciding between 3 tables -- VPI HW 19 Jr. Kenwood Kid 5033 and SystemDek IIX. Opinions?

[Beeb]

Hi Karmics, I'm trying to decide between one of these three tables. I'm trying to go audiophile, or at least upgrade from my Dual 505 (which is why the Kenwood makes the grade as a contender. It would be better, and much cheaper than the others, but still not audiophile, I'm afraid. I do like how it looks, though.) In any case, does anyone have opinions on these? It's time for me to enter the deep water, especially as I'll likely be pairing this with my Fisher 800B tube amp. Thanks!!

 

[DeadRock]

I'd go with the VPI...the Kenwood is gorgeous though...

 

[mythless]

VPI or Systemdek. What kind of arms so they have?

 

[Beeb]

Just to make this totally confusing, a Thorens TD 160 has now entered the mix. Might be the winner, at least for looks and reputation. Any thoughts on it compared to the others?

 

[Beeb]

I'd go with the VPI...the Kenwood is gorgeous though...

Thanks! And agreed about Kenwood. I don't know if you saw, but a Thorens TD 160 has now entered as a contender. Might be the one I pick. What do you think?

 

[DeadRock]

Thanks! And agreed about Kenwood. I don't know if you saw, but a Thorens TD 160 has now entered as a contender. Might be the one I pick. What do you think?

It's nice too...but I'd still go with the VPI....but I admittedly base that partly on aesthetics....mythless' question vis a vis arms is worth answering...Cheers!

 

[mythless]

All depends on the arm, and if you have a place for suspended tables and ultimately price. While we cannot discuss price here. I am guessing all 4 tables have different prices.

Kenwood would be the bottom of the pick.

I would buy pending price and condition and what cartridge they may come with.

If all are stock. Then I would give the VPI a slight advantage, it's newer. I think it is a wash between the Systemdek and Thorens. However, Thorens have a lot of aftermarket support/mods such as springs. I am not too sure about Systemdek.

 

[Beeb]

It's nice too...but I'd still go with the VPI....but I admittedly base that partly on aesthetics....mythless' question vis a vis arms is worth answering...Cheers!

Funny, I actually prefer the Thorens for aesthetics. The VPI looks great, but my house and the rest of my audio system is basically mid-century. Still, hearing good things about the VPI sound quality. I think I'll post pics of all of them in a minute. Stay tuned.

 

[DeadRock]

...just by way of appreciating my aesthetic vibe...

 

[Beeb]

All depends on the arm, and if you have a place for suspended tables and ultimately price. While we cannot discuss price here. I am guessing all 4 tables have different prices.

Kenwood would be the bottom of the pick.

I would buy pending price and condition and what cartridge they may come with.

If all are stock. Then I would give the VPI a slight advantage, it's newer. I think it is a wash between the Systemdek and Thorens. However, Thorens have a lot of aftermarket support/mods such as springs. I am not too sure about Systemdek.

Thanks! I'm going to post pics. Thorens would be $1000. VPI $650, but it needs a cartridge, so likely not too far from the Thorens if I get a good one (which I plan to do). I'll post pics of all of them in a minute.

 

[mythless]

Thorens has a Rega RB250 arm with what looks to be a Soundsmith cartridge. VPI looks stock. What does the Systemdek have?

 

[Beeb]

Thorens has a Rega RB250 arm with what looks to be a Soundsmith cartridge. VPI looks stock. What does the Systemdek have?

You're good! That's exactly right. The Thorens has been tinkered with while the VPI is basically as it was. I'm not sure about the Systemdek, but I'll check. Now, just make this as confusing as possible, one final contender has entered the mix, The Funk Firm Little Super Deck Turntable + F5 Arm. Very enticing! Of course, more expensive. Here's a link to the last one (in lieu of pics): https://positive-feedback.com/Issue74/funkfirm_turntable.htm

 

[knotscott]

I think the Thorens and the VPI are gorgeous too, and Funk Firm is more fun to say than the others. Put an isolation platform under any of them, add a really nice cart, and you should have a great sounding and nice looking front end. Maybe even consider an outboard phono stage. Pursue what you love vs what's "audiophile", you'd be surprised how good some of these things can sound if given a chance.

 

[mythless]

The soundsmith is a very good cartridge. The RB250 with aftermarket goodies is a good arm. I am not too sure if it's leaps and bounds better over the stock Thorens arm, I have a preference for removable headshell. I know nothing of the Funk table.

I guess you would need to rationalize what you want to spend on a table.

 

[Nat]

Hmmmm... I've owned a couple of Thorens 160s and never understood what the hubbub was about. A nice better than entry level table, but a thousand bucks? - it doesn't even have a cast subchassis and I sure hope it doesn't have the plastic subplatter... Even with the Rega (an arm which I've never gotten comfortable with, despite my very high hopes) and cartridge, I wouldn't even consider it. I'd think the VPI a much better bet, but I'd be curious what the Kenwood is selling for - it might be perfectly satisfactory.
And the System Deck (which one?) and Funk Firm, which aren't pictured - it all depends on price...

I'm not sure what you mean by 'time for me to enter deep waters', but I assume it means that you want to demonstrate your audiophile commitment (by spending lots of money). I'd caution against the notion that anything positive about your character or taste is demonstrated by spending more, and I'd caution against the notion that spending more gets you better sound. It may, but it may not, and above a fairly basic level, the cost to benefit ratio goes exponentially up, even if, in fact, you do get better sound.
To prove my point: If the VPI needs a cartridge, try the AT 3600 or its successor - you can find many iterations from eleven bucks up to closer to a hundred, but I'm not sure if there is much difference. What I am sure about is that it is a fun cartridge to listen to. Detail may be missing, but the music gets through. You could be forgiven for wondering why some people are willing to spend vastly more. If you think I'm talking through my hat, Linn made the argument that unless the turntable and arm were right, the cartridge didn't really matter that much, which is why they sold something not far from the 3600 to use with their tables.

 

[flavio81]

Thanks! I'm going to post pics. Thorens would be $1000. VPI $650, but it needs a cartridge, so likely not too far from the Thorens if I get a good one (which I plan to do). I'll post pics of all of them in a minute.

Those are USD dollars? The Thorens is way too expensive at $1000, for that money you can get a brand new Rega P3 which will have a better tonearm.

The cartridge you should really ignore, because you'll never be sure about the stylus condition. It's always better to start with a new cartridge purchased by you.

The VPI is also IMO a tad expensive considering it has a rather basic tonearm (what appears to be a Jelco SA-250ST)

Both the thorens and the VPI are great turntables, but not at that price. The prices are inflated.

 

[flavio81]

Hmmmm... I've owned a couple of Thorens 160s and never understood what the hubbub was about. A nice better than entry level table, but a thousand bucks? - it doesn't even have a cast subchassis and I sure hope it doesn't have the plastic subplatter...

I think only the TD166MK2 had the plastic subplatter.

Still, the 160 it is a mid-tier thorens, it is not a top of the line like the TD125 or TD126.

 

[Beeb]

I think the Thorens and the VPI are gorgeous too, and Funk Firm is more fun to say than the others. Put an isolation platform under any of them, add a really nice cart, and you should have a great sounding and nice looking front end. Maybe even consider an outboard phono stage. Pursue what you love vs what's "audiophile", you'd be surprised how good some of these things can sound if given a chance.

Thanks. All of this and the other comments that have been made are helping me decide. I think it's going to be either the Thorens or the VPI ... unless the Funk Firm grabs me once I see it in the flesh. Thanks again.

 

[Beeb]

Those are USD dollars? The Thorens is way too expensive at $1000, for that money you can get a brand new Rega P3 which will have a better tonearm.

The cartridge you should really ignore, because you'll never be sure about the stylus condition. It's always better to start with a new cartridge purchased by you.

The VPI is also IMO a tad expensive considering it has a rather basic tonearm (what appears to be a Jelco SA-250ST)

Both the thorens and the VPI are great turntables, but not at that price. The prices are inflated.

Super helpful. Though I'm annoyed to hear that the price is inflated. Not annoyed with you, I mean, but the seller. I'll keep all of this in mind if I decide to buy. Thanks again!

 

[Beeb]

I think only the TD166MK2 had the plastic subplatter.

Still, the 160 it is a mid-tier thorens, it is not a top of the line like the TD125 or TD126.

To be clear, here is what the seller said about the Thorens: "The thorens as configured, is going to be about 1000 bucks. It is substantially upgraded table. It is a TD 160 with reinforced frame, sub platter and platter … as well as with a Rega arm fully rewired with all copper." Does your opinion of the price change knowing these details? Thanks again.