Beeb
Active Member
So sorry, I didn't realize this. Thanks. I'll repost there.
Deciding between 3 tables -- VPI HW 19 Jr. Kenwood Kid 5033 and SystemDek IIX. Opinions?
- Thread starter Beeb
- Start date
For my money it would definitely be the VPI. It is a nice TT to start with and has many, many upgrades available, all the way to the HW19 MkIV (platter, bearing, suspension, etc.) as well as an easily changed tonearm. By comparison, the Thorens, while competent, is quite complex and does not have the upgrades available.
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Beeb
Active Member
The seller has been recommending the VPI as well. My only real issue there is the look of it. Will take some getting used to. I love the look of the Thorens. But sound quality is what really matters. And my tastes are malleable. Things tend to grow on me over time.
No love for the Kenwood? 
flavio81
Turntable technician
No, it doesn't change. There's nothing wrong with the subplatter of an original TD160 so it doesn't make too much sense to change it. Futhermore, i'd be against changing it for an aftermarket part. Anyways, It still isn't worth that price, not with that tonearm.
As mentioned, this goes more into the "dollars and sense" forum. But for $1K i would expect a much better tonearm.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
I would say $600-$650 for the VPI would not be unreasonable if all is there, and it is in excellent shape.
As for upgrade options for the HW-19, sure, VPI will sell you a brand spankin Platter which would likely run you over $1000.
Things aren't cheap anymore! Sometimes such pops up used, here, Audiomart-etc.
Yes, a better Platter makes an incremental improvement in sonics, but I got by with the stock Platter for a good 10 years, was running a brand new Benz Micro Glider HO and McCormack Phono Stage, and the sound was excellent.
The stock Sorbothane Puck Suspension is OK, better Feet on the bottom of the wood base wouldn't hurt, and like I say a decent DIN-RCA Phono Cable will positively influence the sound. I later went with Herbie's Labs Tall Firm Tenderfeet swapping the Pucks being that my inner Plinth got much heavier with the mods I did.
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Beeb
Active Member
To be clear, I think it's the cartridge that I mentioned that made it a thousand. That alone is supposedly worth five hundred.
Beeb
Active Member
But sorry to reply along those lines. I've already posted a separate thread in Dollars and Sense. Wasn't aware before that it was proper to post this there.
Beeb
Active Member
Thanks!
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
No problemo.
The AQ Arm, as someone else here touched upon is basically the Jelco SA-250ST. There are a couple slight differences between the AQ PT-8 and SA-250ST. I paid $899 p/tax for the Jr with AQ Arm new in 1996, MusicDirect.
I'll never part with mine, it performs so nicely.
I grew to love the "Shade Tree Garage-Mechanic" simplicity of it.
If you go with the VPI keep an eye on that big auction website, US Audio Mart and Audiogon (among other sites) for used parts to upgrade. The MkIII & MkIV platters turn up, as do the bearings and suspension pieces & arm boards. Plus, the Aries bearing and platter can also be fitted. Lots of options to play with over time. And, don't forget the VPI (and after-market) speed control unit can also be added.
Beeb
Active Member
The VPI still needs a cartridge, so it's $650 minus that. Otherwise, it's in great shape.
I've owned the TD-160and the Systemdek. I've had a VPI 19 (not the Jr) and the Kenwood in my shop.
I would probably pick the VPI. They're really well-designed decks and they have that "authority" mojo on playback.
I would probably pick the VPI. They're really well-designed decks and they have that "authority" mojo on playback.
twiiii
Lunatic Member
Covid time was a great time to buy a turntable. Thats when I bought my heavily discounted Levinson 515B which is a VPI Dragon. I also got a great deal on a Dynavector 20 X 2. But in your case I am not sure what I would do, I think I would be looking at the Technics SL line. they start just above $1100 and go up to $4000. I was having issues with my TD 125 with Rabco arm, but I got the issues corrected for my stereo system. Belts being the main problem as the current Thorens belts aren't as well made as the belts made by the original Thorens company. If I hadn't I guess I would be looking at Technics Sl line, also. I have serious space limitations. If I were rich I would be looking at Smaller SME or Clear audio TT's.
If were me, would step up to either the AT-VM740ML or 750SH. I have both and they are the best MMs I've owned over the past 50yr.
W9TR
Super Member
I wouldn’t buy a table someone has messed with. Maybe they know what they’re doing, probably they don’t.
I wouldn’t buy an older semi or fully automatic with DD or electronic speed control because there is much more that can go wrong compared to simple belt/idler/motor. Competent service is expensive if and when you can get it.
I wouldn’t buy a used cartridge without putting the stylus under a microscope and running it on a test record for response, tracking, etc.
But that’s just me.
I also think that while the table and arm are important the cartridge sets the stage for what is ultimately the sound signature of the system.
Happy hunting, this is fun!
I wouldn’t buy an older semi or fully automatic with DD or electronic speed control because there is much more that can go wrong compared to simple belt/idler/motor. Competent service is expensive if and when you can get it.
I wouldn’t buy a used cartridge without putting the stylus under a microscope and running it on a test record for response, tracking, etc.
But that’s just me.
I also think that while the table and arm are important the cartridge sets the stage for what is ultimately the sound signature of the system.
Happy hunting, this is fun!
flavio81
Turntable technician
This is not a brand new, in box cartridge, so you don't know how many hours the stylus has. It's better to buy turntables without cartridges and buy your own.
The seller could tell you the needle is "brand new" or "low hours" but this is meaningless.
Note that the "technics SL line" encompasses over 50 turntables (incomplete list). from the high end SP-10 and SL-1000 series to professional turntables SP-20, SP-25, SL-1500MK2, to premium audiophile SL-1100, SL-10, SL-15, etc, to DJ SL-1200 series, to mid-fi decks likes the SL-Dx, SL-Qx, series, SL-23, SL-2000 etc, to extremely cheap plastic turntables.
I wouldn't pay $1100 for their mid-fi decks, nor for the SL-1200 line unless it's brand new.
+1
I would add that the tonearm is as important as the cartridge.
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